The battle of 8 Washington - Page 3

Condos for millionaires approved with progressives split
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The condos at 8 Washington (center) would be the tallest buildings and the priciest housing along the waterfront

I couldn't reach Ho to ask why he was working so hard on this deal. But one longtime political insider had a suggestion: "Sometimes it's not about money, it's about power. And if you want to have power, you need to win and prove you can win."

Snellgrove will be sitting pretty if 8 Washington breaks ground. Since it's a private deal (albeit in part on Port of San Francisco land) there's no public record of how much money the developer stands to make. But Chiu pointed out during the meeting, and confirmed to me later by phone, that "there are only two data points we know." One is that Snellgrow informed the Port that he expects to gross $470 million in revenue from selling the condos. The other is that construction costs are expected to come in at about $177 million. Even assuming $25 million in legal and other soft costs, that's a huge profit margin.

And it suggests the he can well afford either to lower the heights — or, more important, to give the city a much sweeter benefits package. The affordable housing component could be tripled or quadrupled and Snellgrove's development group would still realize far more return that even the most aggressive lenders demand.

Chiu said he's disappointed but will continue working to improve the project. "While I was disappointed in the votes," he said, "many of my colleagues expressed concerns about height, parking, and affordable housing fees that they can address in the upcoming project approvals."

So what does this mean for the fall elections? It may not be a huge deal — the symbolism of 8 Washington is powerful, but if it's built, it won't, by itself, directly change the lives of people in Olague's District 5 or Mar's District 1. Certainly the vote on CPMC will have a larger, more lasting impact on the city. Labor's support for Mar could be a huge factor, and his willingness to break with other progressives to give the building trades a favor could help him with money and organizing efforts. On the other hand, some of Olague's opponents will use this to differentiate themselves from the incumbent. John Rizzo, who has been running in D5 for almost a year now, told me he strongly opposed 8 Washington. "It's a clear-cut issue for me, the wrong project and a bad deal for the city." London Breed, a challenger who is more conservative, told us: "I would not have supported this project," she said, arguing that the zoning changes set a bad precedent for the waterfront. "There are so many reasons why it shouldn't have happened," she said. And while Mar is in a more centrist district, support from the left was critical in his last grassroots campaign. This won't cost him votes against a more conservative opponent — but if it costs him enthusiasm, that could be just as bad.

Comments

Such a sad sorry broken record. Build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything.
If we absolutely have to allow something to be built, we must extort as much money as possible from the developer (even though those costs are just transferred back to the buyer) or we must knock a story or two off the building.

What do you people have to offer San Francisco other than being the token opposition to everything proposed?

Posted by Greg2 on May. 23, 2012 @ 9:51 am

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Posted by http://braccialiamo.com on Dec. 11, 2012 @ 4:38 pm

irrelevant. Opponents of this development are the same few dozen activists who show up for many of these meetings. Attend any city meeting and, if you believe only the crowd, you'd think this city is well to the left of Lenin.

The simple fact is that most residents don't have a few hours to spare, especially during the day, to attend these borefests. The supes know that and routinely ignore the speakers. I actually feel sorry for them having to listen to hours of this droning before they can actually make the important decisions.

As for 8-Wash, I suspect 8/11 of the city residents want a prime architectural jewel to bedeck our waterfront, and want the jobs, tax dollars and affordable housing setasides that comes with it.

Again that, ideological whimpering by the usual suspect NIMBY's doesn't really matter.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2012 @ 10:09 am

If you think this is going to be an "architectural jewel" you may want to look at the video that the Planning Department commissioned to show what the project would look like (see YouTube, "We Tore Down the Embarcadero Freeway for This!"). The project narrows the sidewalk along Embarcadero from current 16' down to 15'. The sidewalk along the Embarcadero in front of Sue Bierman park, one block south, is actually 18' wide. The devil is in the details.

The much touted Jackson Court, which extends Jackson to The Embarcadero, allows the bulky residential towers to project 10-12 feet into the public right of way. If this project ever gets built, you may be surprised by what it actually looks like, particularly after the design gets 'value engineered' to reduce construction costs.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 10:27 am

Let me know when someone even notices or cares.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 5:03 pm

If you think this is going to be an "architectural jewel" you may want to look at the video that the Planning Department commissioned to show what the project would look like (see YouTube, "We Tore Down the Embarcadero Freeway for This!"). The project narrows the sidewalk along Embarcadero from current 16' down to 15'. The sidewalk along the Embarcadero in front of Sue Bierman park, one block south, is actually 18' wide. The devil is in the details.

The much touted Jackson Court, which extends Jackson to The Embarcadero, allows the bulky residential towers to project 10-12 feet into the public right of way. If this project ever gets built, you may be surprised by what it actually looks like, particularly after the design gets 'value engineered' to reduce construction costs.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 10:29 am

If you think this is going to be an "architectural jewel" you may want to look at the video that the Planning Department commissioned to show what the project would look like (see YouTube, "We Tore Down the Embarcadero Freeway for This!"). The project narrows the sidewalk along Embarcadero from current 16' down to 15'. The sidewalk along the Embarcadero in front of Sue Bierman park, one block south, is actually 18' wide. The devil is in the details.

The much touted Jackson Court, which extends Jackson to The Embarcadero, allows the bulky residential towers to project 10-12 feet into the public right of way. If this project ever gets built, you may be surprised by what it actually looks like, particularly after the design gets 'value engineered' to reduce construction costs.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 10:29 am

If you think this is going to be an "architectural jewel" you may want to look at the video that the Planning Department commissioned to show what the project will look like (see YouTube, "We Tore Down the Embarcadero Freeway for This!"). The project narrows the sidewalk along Embarcadero from current 16' down to 15'. The sidewalk along the Embarcadero in front of Sue Bierman park, one block south, is actually 18' wide. The devil is in the details.

The much touted Jackson Court, which extends Jackson to The Embarcadero, allows the bulky residential towers to project 10 feet into the public right of way. If this project ever gets built, you may be surprised by what it actually looks like, particularly after the design gets 'value engineered' to reduce construction costs.

Posted by Brad Paul on May. 24, 2012 @ 10:33 am

It's, like, so much more persuasive that way.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 5:03 pm

How can anyone possibly call this ugly boxy monstrosity an "architectual jewel"?!?!

Posted by Guest on May. 25, 2012 @ 10:08 am

that is hoping to be marketed to high-value buyers will look like crap.

I propose that you divorce form from substance. If this were a new center for the homeless, or a medical pot dispensary, you'd probably be singing its praises.

Class envy has no place in architectural critiques.

Posted by Guest on May. 25, 2012 @ 11:29 am

These people are so incredibly myopic and selfish.

Myopic because they obviously don't understand what 1% means. If you create more housing it's not like there's more 1%. It's a fixed ratio of people, meaning, if they buy at 8 Washington they probably won't buy somewhere else. Inventory opens up elsewhere, where it's more affordable based on market demand. That's a free market folks.

Selfish because they're obviously protecting their own best interests. They could care less about affordable housing. If they did, they'd want to see more housing inventory. Let's see if they prefer an exclusively low income development next door.

As for "too bulky", I don't know what to say. Give me a break. You live in the heart of one of the most dense areas in the state, if not country. If you want quaint, you're in the wrong place.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2012 @ 11:45 am

What are you talking about? If we cannot afford the $3 million to buy one of the 143 apartments at 8 Washington, what makes you think we will be able to afford the former homes of the new buyers? These apartments are for the richest of the rich. They will contribute nothing to the city. They are not providing jobs (except for their poor servants). The probably own several homes and will not spend much time here.

The trickled down theory has been discredited. The city's plan admits we have an affordable housing crisis and yet they build luxury housing? We need smart development not shortsighted gifts to their political donors.

Posted by Sigmarlin on May. 24, 2012 @ 4:29 pm

The top 2% pay 50% of all taxes, according to the IRS. Plus all the sales tax and jobs their spending creates. That's why every city on the planet tries to attract them and SF doesn't even really have to try. Do you have any idea what an incredible benefit that is?

And if I pay a million or two for a new condo, then I'm not buying a condo in SOMA, which means the next leg down the hierarchy can, which means they are not competing for that TIC in the Mission that you want. And so on.

That's the funny thing about the free market. It works, like an invisible hand, without some faceless over-paid city bureaucrat in a cheap suit meddling at all.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 5:02 pm

The laws of supply and demand are held in abeyance by the Progressive school. Tim explained their platform in an earlier post. That the people who would live in 8 Washington would NOT otherwise buy an expensive condo in Soma. He seems to believe that they would not live in San Francisco if not for 8 Washington. I remember, in one of the highlights of the post, he calculated the environmental cost of them flying here once a month from New York in their private jets, all because of 8 Washington (I'm serious, I'm not making that up. Search for it).

And your economic arguments are quite logical but the Progressive movement has no innate interest in the tax revenue that the rich pay, other than that they want to spend it on social engineering. If the wealthy could just mail in checks from New York or the Caymans without actually owning property here the Progressives would be perfectly happy.

Posted by Troll on May. 24, 2012 @ 7:42 pm

One might ask, "why would I vote to re-elect a Supervisor who, even though they know a deal is completely out of compliance with zoning laws and the public trust, does not fundamentally support the deal and which may even be something their "normal" constituency does not support, vote for it anyway?". I don't' want to vote for a Supervisor who is weak, and stands for nothing at all.

Thanks to Chiu, Avalos and Campos for doing the right thing for the City.

Posted by Guest observer on May. 23, 2012 @ 3:15 pm

vote the exact opposite, and support a project that will bring vital tax dollars to the city.

Envy is not a viable political strategy.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 5:05 pm

>"I didn't count every single speaker, but it's fair to say sentiment was about 2-1 against the 8 Washington project."

Several of us pointed out last time that the opponents of the project were allowed to speak in a time slot that ended around 8PM. The proponents of the project didn't get a chance to speak until about 11:30PM, on a Tuesday night. Many people obviously had to leave the Civic Center area as midnight was approaching.

I just point this out in case there is anyone new out there reading this who might falsely assume that Tim Redmond is an honest journalist. He is not. He's aware of this significant factor that dampened the opponents response but deliberately ignored it because it didn't suit his agenda.

Just a reminder to everyone -- Redmond is pure propaganda, you'll see for yourself if you read this stuff for awhile. Good for a laugh now and then but if you are looking for information to base an opinion on you obviously need to look elsewhere.

Posted by Troll on May. 24, 2012 @ 11:05 am

against this project shows that even the "usual suspect" activists were struggling to get any numbers out to oppose this.

Frankly, I don't even know why the supes have to vote on every new building. A bigger city would surely delegate such low-level decisions to those with expertise in building and development.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 5:07 pm

I'm more concerned about the sleazy, rent-a-mob corporate lobbyists and corporate hacks and their corrupt politicians working for the 1% for their right-wing elitist agenda (they call it "moderate" to deceive people). I appreciate the "usual suspect" activists who are part of the 99%. They are not usually bought-off through corruption.

Posted by Guest on May. 24, 2012 @ 6:19 pm

In small town San Francisco, the people with the "expertise" are the endless neighborhood groups who have to make sure that nothing changes ever. We're provincial and we know it.

Posted by Greg on May. 24, 2012 @ 5:41 pm

parochialism and provincialism more than the way any and very new building is considered "controversial", requiring endless debate.

Just build the damn thing. The natives will always find something else to whine about.

Posted by Guest on May. 25, 2012 @ 11:31 am

But you're whining too....about the "natives."

That's called being a hypocrite.

Posted by Guest on May. 25, 2012 @ 2:13 pm

Freedom is not free.
You want to live in a thriving metropolis. You are a progressive who opposes progress. Let me paint this picture. Your walking along the city side of the embarcadero past the four building embarcadero center. You pass the remnants of the occupy movement and a largely unused featureless grass park. You continue on and notice a poorly kept parking lot adjacent to 18 black polyester covered chain link fences. Wait, if you stop and peer through a hole you can see all the working class san franciscans in their tennis whites behind the large black fence. If you look up over the fence you will see a large apartment building looming over the area. Inside this apartment building is NIMBY Headquarters for the stopping of the 8 Washington project. The very same building is nearly double the height of the proposed project and is the main source of public outcry against it. Guess how much the tenants of that building pay in rent? It's a wonder they have any complaints at all.it really comes down to this being a world class development opportunity for SF. Any other city in the world would have built it already . The benefits of a well designed public space would already be in use. The only thing that is constant is change and with that the shape of things to come.

Posted by Guest on Jun. 22, 2012 @ 10:46 am