Trust the police? - Page 2

Relations between the cops and certain communities have been strained over the last year

Protestors blocked Muni on the anniversary of Kenneth Harding Jr.'s death.

"It wasn't until more officers arrived on scene to assist the primary officers and prevent them from being surrounded by a hostile crowd that could have potentially escalated the situation. Not to mention, the ambulance would not be able to enter a violent scene that could potentially put their lives at risk, until we feel it is safe," he said. "Remember, the officers did not know if Harding was laying under the gun. Approaching an armed gunmen who was shooting at officers is extremely dangerous and life-threatening."

But many say the police shouldn't be afraid of the community it patrols. When Chatman moved to the Bay Area, she says, she found a community in Bayview-Hunters Point. She also found support in a movement against police violence, made up largely of grieving mothers.

When hundreds marched in San Francisco demanding that George Zimmerman be charged with murdering Trayvon Martin in Florida, Chatman joined other African American mothers in condemning police killings of their sons. Since Martin's death, similar deaths have continued in the Bay Area.

Alan Blueford, 18, was killed May 6 in Oakland three weeks before he graduated high school. Derrrick Gaines was 15 when he was fatally shot June 5 in South San Francisco. Each case feeds anew the fears and resentments some communities feel toward the police.



Some Occupy reactions continued a tradition of a certain type of radical response to police: just get them out. For many, police are like foreign occupying forces in neighborhoods, afraid of locals they don't understand and willing to shoot to kill in mildly threatening situations. Harding and Gaines were running away when they were shot; Blueford was allegedly wielding a screwdriver. In all these situations, shooting to wound likely would have sufficed for self-defense.

When asked how she would like to see police interact differently with Bayview-Hunters Point residents, Chatman didn't see much potential. "Not at this point," Chatman said. "There's been too many murders. Things would have to change drastically. And the mayor trying to implement a stop and frisk? Kenny is a worst example of stop and frisk and racial profiling."

Indeed, at the end of a tense year, Mayor Lee's idea of adopting the stop-and-frisk tactics used in New York and Philadelphia has been met with intense dissent. Sup. Malia Cohen — whose District 10 includes Bayview-Hunters Point — and former Mayor Willie Brown, two of the mayor's supporters, immediately came out against the idea.

"San Francisco should remain focused on community policing that values both law enforcement and building relationships with communities who live with gun violence. Anything less would undermine decades of hard work in building trust between local law enforcement and our neighborhoods," she wrote in a San Francisco Chronicle op-ed.

Even the SFPD is wary of the idea.

"We are not passing stop and frisk," Manfredi told the Guardian. "It's not even an option on the table for the department. We're using the same method we've been using this whole time: probable cause and reasonable suspicion."



The anniversary of Harding's death comes a week after the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement released a highly circulated report that concluded an African American is killed by a police officer or someone "deputized to act in their name" every 40 hours.

"We call [the killings] 'extrajudicial'," the report notes, "because they happen without trial or any due process, against all international law and human rights conventions." The report notes that only nine people have been charged in the 110 killings it looks at, and none convicted.


"Chatman and other family members and friends maintain that when Harding was stopped while off-boarding the T train by SFPD officers and asked for proof of paying the $2 fair, he was unarmed. Harding ran, and those officers drew guns and shot him."

According to data from ShotSpotter — which was deployed in the Bayview in 2008 — three separate firearms unloaded 10 shots over six seconds. The first shot was one of two fired from where Harding was located, police said. Two to six seconds later, eight more shots were fired from where the officers were located.

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner:

Today is the first day of progressive history.

Posted by matlock on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 8:31 pm

I am sure this paragraph has touched all the internet users, its really nice.

Posted by Tampa child support lawyer on Jul. 25, 2012 @ 12:27 pm

-to-corporate-entity program, I take any "information" provided by them through the police with a half-pound of salt.

Posted by lillipublicans on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 9:34 pm

I've also come to realize that radiocarbon dating is a plot by a Jewish elite to subvert God's truth that the earth was created 5000 years. So I take all that dinosaur, caveman shit with a FULL-pound of salt.

Posted by Troll II on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 9:54 pm

ShitSpitter isn't propaganda. No sirree. It's hard science, exactly like radiocarbon dating. 'Coz the cops who put up the data on ShitSpitter would ALWAYS put up stuff that makes them look bad! If there's evidence that doesn't corroborate the official police line, you can trust the police who put up the data on ShitSpitter to put up the truth. Why? Because authorities never lie. Duh.

Posted by Greg on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 10:17 pm

A cavalcade of evidence which requires dozens if not hundreds of people needing to remain silent or complicit is self evident.

Shot splitter shots are recorded digitally. Time is a construct made up by the establishment.

Posted by matlock on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 11:20 pm

"Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
Benjamin Franklin

The speed of light is just another way of knowing.

It is so amazing that the progressives who claim intellectual greatness are those who loath science when it doesn't work out for them.

Posted by matlock on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 11:00 pm

Exactly, Lili. I didn't even bother click the link till you explained what ShitSpitter is. I didn't need to, because I figured it was something like that. Clicking to the Examiner confirms what I already knew.

Matlock's reasoning amounts to:

Matlock: I believe the police version of the story and refuse to consider anything else.


Matlock: Because I learn'd it on da ShitSpitter.

But Matlock, doesn't ShitSpitter just get their data from the cops? Isn't it actually run by the cops?

Matlock: Well I believe the cops.

But why?

Matlock: Because what the authorities say is corroborated by ShitSpitter.

It's always the first day of history for Matlock.

Posted by Greg on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 9:58 pm

"first day of history" -- elegant.

Posted by lillipublicans on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 10:41 pm

I'm Greg, "I think right wingers are dumb because they approach science the same way I do, they think the earth is 7000 years old because of the bible, while I think that the speed of sound is a construct."

Posted by matlock on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 11:24 pm

One problem is that this miracle technology doesn't work, or doesn't work correctly, a lot of the time:

In addition to making craploads of errors, there are always issues of data interpretation. When a corporation that wants to keep a lucrative city contract with the police (or the police themselves), are providing the interpretation, such interpretation is always suspect.

Lilli's right. It's a boondoggle, a taxpayer funded giveaway to a corporation with close ties to the cops. That was my instinct to begin with, and a quick google search confirms that my instincts were correct.

Posted by Greg on Jul. 18, 2012 @ 11:54 pm

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