Bus stop - Page 3

Muni could collect millions in fines against private shuttles — but it won't

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"We are developing these policies to better utilize the boarding zones for these shuttle providers," Rose explained. "What we're trying to do is provide a more efficient transportation network."

To that end, the city has organized a series of stakeholder meetings in recent years with Google, Apple, Adobe, Genentech, the University of California San Francisco, and other shuttle providers to design a way for Muni buses and private buses to coexist in harmony, in city bus zones. Those conversations were referenced in the 2011 report; three years later, the pilot program is expected to solidify those discussions into a formalized system.

Here and there, some bus zones have already been altered to accommodate the private shuttle buses. "[An] extension of the Muni zone on 8th Street (in the South of Market) appears to be working well; although SFMTA Staff report that shuttle operators using the new zone have balked at the suggestion that they should help pay for the $1,500 improvement," the 2011 strategic analysis noted.

The plan that's coming down the pipe will essentially serve to legitimize what the shuttles are already doing. But so far, this deal won't result in any financial gain for the transportation agency. If it goes forward as planned, the opportunity to make transit improvements by collecting revenue from private companies that use public infrastructure will be passed up.

Comments

But suddenly a few successful people are using them and you rant and rave?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 17, 2013 @ 3:54 pm

In the space of about 20 minutes, three corporate shuttle buses offloaded. None were Google and I wasn't sure which ones they were. But they each only stopped for like a minute while half a dozen or so commuters got off.

Then a #24 pulled in, and for longer.

My anecdotal assessment is that is no delay to Muni and that anything other than a trivial fee would be driven more by envy than efficiency.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 8:31 am

... so I'm going to ignore the big pictures and make up motivations about people I don't know and post them anonymously.

Posted by Jym on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 7:35 am

And you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary, "Jym".

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 7:46 am

And I saw one shuttle stay there for a half an hour loading and unloading people, while a crowd of ordinary San Franciscans gathered to get on MUNI, two of which were backed up waiting by the time the shuttle was done. I asked some of my fellow patrons if it was always like this, and they said this scene repeats itself every single day, with sometimes three MUNI buses having to wait for the shuttle. They said it's better to just take a cab because of all the delays the shuttle causes.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 9:02 am
Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 9:07 am

Really. The shuttle sits there for a half an hour loading and unloading people.

Seems rather odd that a shuttle getting people to work would sit in one spot for a half hour. I mean...it doesn't take a half hour to load an airplane full of people with carry on luggage.

And why was it loading AND unloading people? The night shift perhaps?

Are you sure that this is what actually happens? In the real world, I mean, not make believe land.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 9:29 am

I've seen their dwell time under a minute.

This whole issue is trumped up for political ends.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 10:54 am

The SGBG stands for San Francisco Bitter Grouser

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 8:45 am

Like a petulant child.

And since SFBG almost always loses, it usually comes across like a giant whinefest.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 8:01 am

So the incidence of private shuttles using city bus stops has increased and the city is reacting, perhaps slowly, by instituting a program of regulation and revenue collection that will make sure that the shuttles aren't costing the city any money.

So...I mean...whats the big issue here? That the city isn't opportunistically seeking to MAKE money off of private services that its citizens use to limit the number of private cars on the street?

Would we seek to make money off of car pools as well?

How much money does the city make from UPS trucks and Academy of Arts shuttles? From any number of delivery trucks?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 9:14 am

It's really just part of SFBG's "war on tech" and "war on success".

AKA envy.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 10:39 am

War on this war on that.

Really Guest, you need to chill out on the martial fervor.

Find some other tropes to be descriptive with

Posted by Claire DeWitt on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 11:54 am

No war on tech, no war on bankers, no war on Christmas, no war on white people, no war on success.

We don't all live our lives by stereotyping others.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 12:10 pm

Who said anything about stereotypes.

I was just pointing out your overreliance on the 'war' thing.

Posted by Claire DeWitt on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 12:44 pm

and the related stereotyping that liberals love to do.

Are you defending those?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 12:59 pm

Nevermind, Guest.

I was trying to help you develop a more engaging style of posting.

Lost cause.

Posted by Claire DeWitt on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 1:57 pm

people as "good" or "bad" according to some contrived ideology.

If you believe it is, then you are the "lost cause" around here.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 2:15 pm

Especially the sociopathic one there.

Posted by GlenParkDaddy on Dec. 20, 2013 @ 3:17 pm

Based on the identical phrase "stereotyping that liberals love to do" used by another 'Guest', I'll assume this is the same 'Guest' that was commenting on the GOPman story (the Hackathon co. CEO who posted on Facebook wishing the homeless "trash" would be swept away somewhere where he wouldn't have to be bothered by them.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 10:58 pm

I'm always going to favor sitting down and coming to an agreement, rather than punishing.
Not to mention that if the city's going to ticket shuttle buses using bus stops, they darn well better start ticketing cars that actually block city streets on Sunday mornings outside of churches.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 9:52 am

should not IMO. They reduce the number of cars, ease congestion, and that in turn helps Muni.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 10:40 am

Basically -- resentment against Google buses -- essentially mass scale car-pooling is promoting a political bureaucratic solution.

Once fining/ticketing/taxing private buses comes into effect, it will make life worse, not better, than the perceived effrontery to the "self-proclaimed" masses of having a rich company provide mass transit for their workers.

It will make life worse because it will discourage private buses -- making MUNI more crowded, and people's commutes longer (because more transfers will be necessary if only MUNI is not discouraged), and it will punish less rich or non-profits as well from providing private buses.

This is Stalinist leftism -- make things worse for everybody so it's more fair.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 3:00 pm

rich or happy, if a single other person is not.

And to squeeze out all success and prosperity from society, they cannot make everyone rich and happy, but they can make everyone poor and miserable.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 3:15 pm

Only you can make yourself happy....

Posted by Guest on Dec. 20, 2013 @ 4:25 pm

I don't doubt that the Google type buses are something of an inconvenience to Muni travelers but it is a bit difficult to see where they cost much in the way of real money. Perhaps drivers that wait 30 seconds for the Google bus to leave get overtime.

But contrast that with bike lanes, which take up significant, dedicated real estate on city streets. Space that, among other things, could be used for dedicated mass transit lines or revenue generating metered parking.

Car drivers pay an annual registration fee that benefits the city, they pay tax on every gallon of gas they buy and they pay sales tax when they buy the car. Plus they use meters instead of chaining their cars to city property when they park.

Where is the outcry from the SFBG about the need for bike riders to start paying their fair/fare share?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 10:58 am

and cyclists, all with the requisite fees. We're spending a lot on bike lanes. Let's get some return on our investment.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 11:18 am

You get a return on your investment by reduced traffic congestion, improved air quality and roads that last longer - all for the cost of paint and labor.

Getting people onto bikes means getting people out of cars, which results in all of the above.

Yes, cyclists don't pay registration fees but cyclists do pay taxes, just like motorists. Your registration fees are barely a drop in the bucket in terms of actual road cost, they don't give an exclusive right to it over anyone else.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 2:17 pm

would like rather than tell me what returns you want me to have?

Maybe congestion doesn't bother me. How would you know? You haven't asked me?

Of course everyone pays general taxes, but I was talking about road and vehicle specific fees. Auto users pay them to use the roads, but cyclists do not. Everyone should pay something.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 2:27 pm

SFBG's new slogan:

Get out of the bus and into your car!

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 11:03 am

a successful person somewhere is inconvenienced.

The politics of envy lead to some bizarre statements.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 11:19 am

lets say that a speeding ticket is $100. I've sped 100 times in the past 3 years.
Is it really the SFBG's stance that I somehow owe $10,000?

I'm all in favor of regulating these buses and charging them for their use of the streets and MUNI stops, but when somebody starts saying that they owe $1B, all of their other arguments kinda get drowned out by the ridiculousness.

par for the course

Posted by guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 11:56 am
Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 12:21 pm

Without the busses, there wouldn't be the problems of evictions and gentrification, because many people would choose to live closer to work, AKA, silicon valley, because of the hellish commute. Google et.al. are marketing San Francisco as a perk to their employees by offering the shuttles. Ergo, THEY SHOULD BE TAXED for using public property for their private gain, not to mention for killing the diveristy and creativity that USED TO BE synonymous with San Francisco. In case y'all didn't notice, all the creative people have moved to Oakland.

It's pretty sad how it's now status quo for governments to quiver at the idea of pissing off a corporation. Besides the internet, I guess William Gibson was right about that too.

Posted by Darren R. on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 12:30 pm

anyone?

Oh wait, you don't have any. It's just a convenient stereotype to employ when seeking to wage class warfare.

"All the creative people have moved to Oakland"? Really? Every single one? There isn't a creative person in our entire town?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 12:44 pm

anyone?

Oh wait, you don't have any. It's just a convenient stereotype to employ when seeking to wage class warfare.

"All the creative people have moved to Oakland"? Really? Every single one? There isn't a creative person in our entire town?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 12:44 pm

You must really hate the Academy of Art - they have evicted more people in SF than all of the tech employees.

Posted by Richmondman on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 1:37 pm

tech employee. I suspect that they generally prefer these new condos that are going up everywhere.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 1:53 pm

freeways, UCSF and the Moscone Center.

A little mobility among the populace is generally good for the economy and the markets.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 1:58 pm

Without the busses, there wouldn't be the problems of evictions and gentrification, because many people would choose to live closer to work, AKA, silicon valley, because of the hellish commute. Google et.al. are marketing San Francisco as a perk to their employees by offering the shuttles. Ergo, THEY SHOULD BE TAXED for using public property for their private gain, not to mention for killing the diveristy and creativity that USED TO BE synonymous with San Francisco. In case y'all didn't notice, all the creative people have moved to Oakland.

It's pretty sad how it's now status quo for governments to quiver at the idea of pissing off a corporation. Besides the internet, I guess William Gibson was right about that too.

Posted by Darren R. on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 12:33 pm

all SF's creative people now live there?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 12:45 pm

it is amazing how stupid you commenters are. you really are a pack of idiots, and the sooner you all die off from infecting yourselves whilst eating the turds in your mouth the better.

seriously just die, your infantile armchair politics are useless and waste bandwidth. seriously twerking cats would be a better use. STFU!

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 2:09 pm
Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 2:24 pm

SFMTA would have already installed *cameras* to capture their license plate ids and provide for automatic ticketing.

This is an example of "controlled flight into the ground"; this is an example of "public servants" intentionally mismanaging public amenities to favor private interests. Why?

*real lillipublicans or fake? Reader must decide.

Posted by lillipublicans* on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 2:31 pm

Two possibilities:

1) SFMTA has told DPT and SFPD not to ticket any bus at a bus stop in the city on the grounds that, duh, it's a bus.

2) In theory the shuttle buses could be cited but SFPD makes an informed judgment that that is a very low priority vis-a-vis-citing cars and trucks using bus stops, which is a much bigger problem.

Take your choice, Lilli, whether real or fake.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

day labor to go do farm work and the city put up cameras to catch them you would be having a shit fit.

Posted by Matlock on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 5:07 pm

Shuttle bus for poor hispanic workers - good.

Shuttle bus for successful white male workers - bad.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 5:13 pm

yes, the problem is not the system, it is indeed the constituencies...

The mindless drivel of w h i t e m a l e democratic state capitalist sock puppets, i.e.

guest @ 1, guest @ 2, guest @ 3, et cetera

Posted by Guestagainstwhitemalecapitalistpolity on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 3:58 pm

Let's get all racist and sexist!

Posted by Guest on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 4:20 pm

the drivers I see don't seem to be white.

Your overt racism is disgusting.

Posted by Matlock on Dec. 18, 2013 @ 5:08 pm

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