September 25 2002

CHARLES AZNAVOUR'S "What Makes a Man a Man" wafts from the speakers of a room in the Ritz Carlton hotel as François Ozon discusses his latest movie. It's a curious choice of music. Though other films by the 34-year-old director (Water Drops on Burning Rocks, in particular) prove he's adept at creating unflattering male portraits, his latest gift to audiences comes wrapped in feminine packaging. When 8 Women's faux-Technicolor wrapping paper is ripped off, female duplicity is revealed. Ozon presents the spectacle with compassionate cynicism. "I prefer to work with actresses because often they are more clever [than actors]," he says. "Female characters are more interesting and complex because of the situation of women in society."

Accordingly, the musical whodunit 8 Women unites many – but not all – of France's most famous actresses: Catherine Deneuve rules, or attempts to rule, with trademark hauteur over a cast that includes Isabelle Huppert, Fanny Ardant, Emmanuelle Béart, Virginie Ledoyen, and grand dame Danielle Darrieux (playing a role similar to Absolutely Fabulous's drunken grandmother). During a title sequence that also pays homage to the rain shower of phony jewels in the opening credits of Douglas Sirk's Imitation of Life, the name of each actress is matched with a flower, some symbolic of innocence, some overtly obscene. The plot that follows is a murder mystery, but Ozon's true investigation – as usual – is a misanthrope's inquest into human nature. If Aznavour wonders what makes a man, 8 Women shows what unmakes one.

Bay Guardian: The last time we spoke, you said you preferred Romy Schneider to Catherine Deneuve. So how did you come to make a movie with her?

François Ozon: When I began to work [with frequent collaborator Marina De Van] on the script, we realized we wanted to make a film with stars. The most important star should play the mother, Gaby. And who is the most famous French actress? Catherine Deneuve. She was the first person I asked, and when she said yes, it was easy to assemble the rest of the cast. I built the [film's] family around her.

I think Catherine is an amazing actress. Very early in her career she was able to take great risks because she worked with great directors like [Luis] Buñuel, [Roman] Polanski, and Jacques Demy. She understood fast that she had to work with some kind of Pygmalion. Many American actresses don't know that, and you can see it in their careers. Sharon Stone – I don't know if she's a great actress, but after the film with Scorsese [Casino] her career has been dreadful, no?

I think a difference between France and America regarding actresses is that for French people movies are an art. Here it's an industry. Catherine is a cinephile; she can love Iranian films or Japanese films. I'm not sure if Sharon Stone has ever seen a Japanese film.

BG: What is your interest in the movie's eight songs, and how does each song relate to the woman who sings it?

FO: For French people it's a kind of game because there are many connections between the songs and the actresses. During the '60s, Sylvie Vartan was with [fellow pop star] Johnny Hallyday, and Catherine Deneuve had maybe an affair with Johnny Hallyday. So you might think it was very perverse for me to have Deneuve sing a song made popular by Vartan.

It was my pleasure to hear an actress singing. I think it's very touching. Even if they are not Maria Callas or Celine Dion – even if, like Isabelle Huppert, they don't have a beautiful voice – the important thing is not the technique but the interpretation. And they are great interpreters.

BG: Were any of the actresses different from your image of them?

FO: Isabelle Huppert was exactly as I thought – she loves to play, she can be very transparent, she needs a character to exist. She's the exact opposite of Deneuve, who is very iconic – when she arrives somewhere, she's Catherine Deneuve.

BG: Romy Schneider does make an appearance in 8 Women. Emmanuelle Béart's character shows a picture of her mother to Deneuve's Gaby, and the picture is of Schneider. What's the inspiration behind that gesture?

FO: During the '70s, Romy Schneider was the hot actress – very touching, very exterior – and Deneuve was the cold actress, very insular. And there's another connection. When Romy Schneider died, Emmanuelle Béart worked with [director] Claude Sautet, playing the types of parts that Schneider had played in his movies.

But when I shot the scene, I didn't shoot it with a picture of Romy Schneider. I gave to Catherine a picture of my mother. She said, "Oh, what a beautiful woman," and I said, "Yes, it's my mother." Later I changed the picture. Using my mother's picture would have been a private joke, only for me. This is a film about actresses, so I had to use a picture of an actress.

BG: Besides Romy Schneider, are there any stars you wish you could have cast?

FO: No. I had the eight I wanted, in France. But the other French actresses who were not in the film were very upset. People like Jeanne Moreau and Juliette Binoche.

BG: 8 Women and Todd Haynes's new film, Far from Heaven, both reference Douglas Sirk. Have you seen Far from Heaven?

FO: I would like to. People have told me he tried to make a film like Douglas Sirk's. I don't want to be Douglas Sirk – I want to pay tribute, make a wink-wink at his movies, nothing more.

BG: Though different in tone and look, Dancer in the Dark also shares some elements with 8 Women: a little Sirk, a little Demy, and Deneuve. What did you think of it?

FO: I didn't like it, though I love Breaking the Waves. I didn't understand why [Lars von Trier] shot the musical sequences to resemble an MTV clip. You didn't see the dance. You didn't see Catherine dancing. And I think Catherine was frustrated by that.

BG: What contemporary directors do you feel a kinship with? Almodóvar springs to mind.

FO: Yes, people tell me that. I loved All about My Mother. I didn't like [his new film] Talk to Her. I loved the silent-movie sequence, but I didn't understand whether the main character was gay or not. You don't know where Almodóvar is at the end of the film – is he close to the character, or does he judge him? Too ambiguous for me.

BG: I've read that during the first day on 8 Women's set you thought you wouldn't make it to the end of the shoot. What was the difficulty?

FO: The difficulty was managing and coping with the eight women together. Before the shoot I had a special relationship with each actress and we were only two. Suddenly I had eight in front of me, and I had to cut myself in eight. You don't give the same direction to Catherine Deneuve, Isabelle Huppert, and Emmanuelle Béart; you have to adapt yourself to each one. The first day I thought I would never finish the film. But day after day you forget everything, and you're able to find in yourself the strength, the power to direct eight bitches.

BG: Would you like to direct more musicals in the future?

FO: I like to put musical segments in films that don't have the traits of the genre. It's a way to tell the story differently and to show another facet of the characters. When I finished the script, the producers asked, "A man is dead – do you think it's realistic that the women could begin to dance and to sing?" I said, "I know it's not realistic, but I don't want to make a realistic film. I want to make an artificial movie." The audience doesn't care about the death of the man. They've come to see beautiful women and fights.

BG: What do you have to say to people who claim that 8 Women is cruel and that you are a misogynist?

FO: Of course I am! It was a film against women – all the women of the world. Actually, I think it's a feminist movie because the female characters are so strong. There's a great deal of cruelty to the characters, but whoever loves feels pain. If I have spent so much time with eight women, I think that's proof I'm not a misogynist. It was a nightmare, I can tell you.

You don't make movies with good feelings.