IAN: It’s mainly just because of the elevation changes. All the hills make really interesting and fun stuff to ride, lots of weird banks and little kickers on the sidewalks. Stuff like that, which is what I have the most fun riding. San Francisco is just a good place to cruise around, not necessarily ride any one spot for very long.

SFBG: Yeah, ‘cause Ohio’s pretty flat, right?

IAN: Yeah, Ohio’s really flat. The main thing that we get to ride is maybe a ledge here and there or a rail, something like that. We don’t have nearly as many interesting set-ups.

SFBG: What do you think of the scene here compared to places that you’ve been?

IAN: It seems pretty comparable. There’s always different cliques of guys that stick together, you know, close friends and stuff, but we’ve been with a pretty decent-sized group of dudes, and it seems that everyone has fun and rides, so it seems that everyone gets along, so that’s pretty cool. There’s definitely a lot of riders--I definitely saw that from that jam [Scrape the Town 2] the other day, that there’s a ton of riders here. There might not be that much where I’m from.

SFBG: What originally got you into riding bikes?

IAN: I guess like most kids, you end up trying to jump your bike in your driveway and stuff like that. And I also raced dirt bikes when I was younger, so I had that mentality of trying to jump things. So it just kind of progressed, and I never really stopped trying to jump my bike and stuff. It just got more and more important to me.

SFBG: You raced motocross?

IAN: Yeah, I did that until I was about 16.

SFBG: What got you out of that? Did you break yourself off or something?

IAN: I just got more into bicycles than motorcycles--I cared more about that. Because my dad races, my brother races still--it’s just a big hassle. It’s a big pain in the butt. Always having to work on the bikes and wash them, and do all this stuff, whereas my BMX bike, whenever I felt like riding it, I could just jump on it and do it--I didn’t have to depend on anybody. And so I just gradually went from caring about the motorcycles to caring about the BMX more.

SFBG: Did you ever used to skate or anything.

IAN: No. No, I’ve never really skated.

SFBG: What kind of experiences have you had--particularly in the City, but anywhere really--with skaters?

IAN: It’s been really mixed. Through experiences, I’ve grown to expect them to have an attitude with me, even if I haven’t done anything to justify that.

SFBG: Is this at street spots? Because you don’t really ride parks that much, right?

IAN: I used to more when I was younger, and I’ve definitely dealt with that. Them yelling at you or trying to kick you out or calling the cops on you, things like that. I think it does tend to be, though--especially out on the street--the younger the kid is, the more attitude you’re going to get, because they’ve been taught, on way or another, they believe that’s the way they’re supposed to act, even if they don’t know why exactly they don’t like you.

Ian in “Lotek Mixtape Vol. 1”

SFBG: Where do you think that comes from? It seems like I’ve been interviewing people, and a lot of people say that you have these little groms that are brought up on this NO BIKES ALLOWED rule. But then a lot of people say, “Well, it’s the old school skate guys.”

IAN: I think that’s a lot of where it comes from--the old school ramp rider, pool guys. But I think, because of them--they got it into the magazines, that mentality. I don’t really pay attention to a lot of the skate magazines, but I think that theme would end up in magazines. I don’t know if that’s necessarily present anymore or not. And then, I think just the fact that we’re not allowed in skateparks, in the cement parks, usually--it just keeps that mentality alive. The kids are aware of that situation, and even if they don’t necessarily know why, or wouldn’t otherwise have that opinion, they’ll go with that opinion and use it against us.

SFBG: Of the litany of reasons why bikes shouldn’t be allowed, or even on the street--“Bikes wreck our spots” and stuff like that--do you think that any of those reasons have a basis in reality?

IAN: The only thing I can see is that it is a fact that pegs chunk up ledges. But, I mean, it’s usually from inexperienced kids who are just learning how to grind. But on street, I don’t think there’s any basis, because we’re all riding something that’s not ours. So I don’t think there’s any validity. Because we’re all trespassing, we’re all doing something that technically, we probably shouldn’t be doing. As far parks go? Yeah, I can see that to a certain extent, but it’s not hard to build parks that will be able to handle that just fine.

SFBG: Especially with metal coping.

IAN: Yeah, it is real that they can chip stuff, but it’s really easy to solve that problem. It’s not a good argument.

SFBG: I’m personally divided whether pegs chunks ledges anymore than grinding on it does. Anything’s going to chunk up a ledge eventually. I suppose when groms get 3 feet of air over the ledge before they grind on it, maybe. What about bikes having plastic pedals and plastic pegs. Do you think that’ll help change attitudes?

IAN: It should. But I think it’ll take more than just using those to help change attitudes. I think it’ll take bike riders going to city council meetings to get a new park built and voicing that opinion, making sure they’re very open and aware. This story that you’re trying to do--things like that. Putting it out there. It’d definitely be able to get past that problem.

SFBG: What do you think the ‘cause for the low visibility of bikers is? Are we apathetic?

IAN: Partly it could be that. I think the fact that we’ve always been chased off of places and looked down upon by skaters and stuff like that. I think bike riders in general tend to feel like they have a lot less say. So maybe they’re not motivated to go to these meetings, they don’t feel that they’re in touch with that opportunity.

SFBG: Do you think that skaters grow up with a feeling of entitlement, young kids growing up with these parks being built constantly, do you think that bikers have become second class citizens?

IAN: Yeah, exactly. I most definitely think that’s the way it’s been. And that does breed…I don’t necessarily know if “apathy” is the right word, but it definitely breeds contempt. And a feeling of being lower class, that what you do isn’t worth the city’s effort, but skating is. And that only builds the animosity between skating and biking too.

Ian and Chad Shackelford in the System video. Ian actually gets arrested by the man in this video for riding in a skatepark. Fight the power.

SFBG: I don’t know. I’m older. How old are you?

IAN: I’m 27.

SFBG: When we show up at spots--I mean, certainly speaking for myself--I’m not looking for a fight. But it seems like this level of animosity, which sometimes erupts into violence, it used to just come from skaters vibing out BMXers. Do you think BMXers have become more thuggish because they know that they’re not permitted and that they’re going to get attitude? Do you think that makes them more willing to throw down?

IAN: I’ve personally experienced that a lot. I mean, I don’t get into fights too often about that stuff, but I’ve definitely witnessed it many, many times. It’s kind of like everything that happens in social behavior: you get to this point where you do feel second class, and you do feel this anger toward the person even if you don’t actually know them personally. And you expect them to be against you. So the second they say something, you’re ready for that fight. You’re ready--you’re just fed up, and you stand up for yourself. And so, yeah, I can see that definitely has bred, like you said, maybe a thuggish kind of attitude towards it. And you can’t blame them. No other way of handling it has worked.

SFBG: Do you think there’s a legal basis to keep bikes out of parks? People say “they’re not designed for bikes,” but they’re obviously just as useable for bikes as they are for a skateboard.

IAN: I think you probably could find real, legal basis to find that unjust. Because we obviously use it, we have all these contest that are put on for it. It’s obviously just as much our kind of set-up as it is for a skateboard. The only basis you could find for it is that we could be a little more damaging to a ramp--if it’s not built correctly--than a skateboard. Just because of sheer weight. Our bikes are just heavier and faster. But that’s such an easily fixed problem that it has no validity.

SFBG: What do you think about the idea that bikes aren’t safe, because they go faster and so forth, that they’re “collision machines”?

IAN: I don’t know what to say about it, because it’s all relative. Where do you draw that line? The park’s still the same for everybody, we all do our own thing on it. A bike rider doesn’t want to run into a skater, either. It’s bad for everyone. Everybody tries their best to watch out.

SFBG: This might be my bias, but it seems as though skaters and bikers in the same park are going to both use the park, but they’re going to find different lines. It seems that skaters don’t really want to pay attention--especially if a biker’s in there and it’s against the rules. They don’t even care what the bikers line is supposed to be. It’s almost like, “Oh, you ran into me. Now it’s on.”

IAN: Yeah, because they know that no matter what they do, it’s pretty much the biker’s fault, because he wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place. And so, yeah, they do give a lot less room to the bike rider. Whereas, if bikes were allowed in parks, and everything was meant to be that way, we would all be a lot more used to each other, riding with each other. I don’t see how that could possibly be a problem, speed-wise and all that.

Ian, Mike Arelean, and Jackson Ratima in a Mosh parts web video. Stay tuned for the Jackson interview to be posted.

Mike Ardelean, Jackson Ratima, Ian Schwartz from Mosh on Vimeo

SFBG: In terms of the public and rides like the First Rule thing, and lately, because you’ve been filming and riding around town… And also, what you were saying earlier, about riding street, that technically you’re trespassing when you’re hitting spots--how do you think the public sees people on BMX bikes? Especially full grown people on “kid’s bikes”?

IAN: I definitely think it’s maybe a tiny bit more understood now, because we’ve had a presence on TV--sort of. But I think that most people don’t really understand what’s going on, why this grown man is riding a little kid’s bicycle. I…I don’t know. I don’t actually know, really. I was going to say that I think we’re reasonably respected, but that’s definitely not true. I don’t really know what people think about us, to be honest. It’s pretty mixed and varied.

SFBG: This is kind of a little abstract, fortune-telling question, but it seems that when parks are built, people are like, “kids need an outlet--they’ll just be running the streets” and so forth. When bikes get into skateparks, do you think it’ll be like, “Why are you out here destroying this ledge or grinding this handrail, when we built a park for you?” Do you think there will be a backlash against street riding?

IAN: Yeah, I do. And I don’t know what the answer to that would be. I most definitely think that anybody that’s aware that there’s a skatepark in town that you’re allowed to ride on your bicycle--I mean, we already get it. The policeman don’t necessarily know that we’re not allowed in the parks, and they’ll say, “You know there’s a park like two blocks down the street?” And we’ll be like, “Well, we’re not actually allowed in it anyways.” We’ll definitely have a lot less of an argument when someone doesn’t want us riding the street.

SFBG: In terms of other cities that you’ve been to, since you’ve pretty much ridden around the world at different spots--since San Francisco has such an embedded skate culture--it’s the home of Thrasher magazine, and the home of so many famous skate spots and videos--do you think the attitude out here is any worse, or more hardcore or hardened than anywhere else?

IAN: I haven’t had too extensive an experience with any of the skaters out here. I’ve seen a lot of them, ridden spots with them plenty of times, but as far as I’ve seen so far, it’s pretty much the same as everywhere: you have the nice guys and the not-so-nice guys, and you just have to deal with it. It doesn’t seem any worse or better here than anywhere else.

SFBG: This is another fortune-telling thing. Do you think there’s going to be a rosy future when bikes and skaters will just accept each other and get along?

IAN: Um, well, I couldn’t even say. If I had to take a guess, I would guess no, probably not. Just because the way everything is in life--that’s just human nature. People tend not to like things that they’re not doing. But I think it could be better. I could see it getting better.

SFBG: What do you think the steps would be to improve that?

IAN: Just the things that we’ve already talked about. Just getting over their little arguments about us ruining spots and things like that. Once that’s all past, people have realized that’s not really the case, that’s not really how the way it goes, and kind of forget that. And once the younger kids stop being taught to think that way--that’ll help a lot.

SFBG: Also, to me, because so many kids come up skating or riding bikes when they’re in junior high and high school, and that’s such a big part of their lives, the whole scene with grown-ups and guys like Alex Chalmers, who wrote the “BMX Jihad” article in Thrasher…it’s like high school just continues forever. That cliquish, us-against-them attitude is so embedded in “extreme sports.” It’s the surfer “locals only” thing. On the one hand there’s the good elements of not wanting to grow up, and on the other hand, it’s like 8th grade.

IAN: Yeah. I think there’s a big difference between not necessarily growing up and doing the stereotypical 9 to 5 thing--there’s a difference between that, and being mature and being logical about something. That’s where it’s different. I definitely agree with what you’re saying. They keep that mentality, and it’s sort of ridiculous and it’s sad that they’re teaching the younger kids to think that way and keeping that alive.

SFBG: It seems like a lot of stuff, when I check on sites like Concrete Disciples, it seems that some skaters think that, “Okay, we’ll build the 500 thousand dollar park for the skaters, and if the BMXers compain enough, they’ll get dirt jumps. Or like Livermore--there’s a couple skateparks, and they’re building a wooden bike park. What do you say about the attitude that, “this is for skateboarding, and we’ll make another facility, out of either wood or dirt, for bikes”? Some skaters have this attitude of, “well, we can’t ride on dirt, and you can--so your park should be out of dirt.”

IAN: It’s partly just misconception--some people just flat out don’t know what we do. But mainly it’s an easy way out thing, and we don’t have the kind of numbers and the voice to argue against it, so they just, you know, throw us something like that. It’s ridiculous, and it’s not fair whatsoever--not a just thing to do. Just because we can ride dirt, doesn’t mean we want to. There’s so much maintenance that goes on with that. Lots of people don’t like riding that. We like riding cement parks. We don’t tear up the cement parks. Those are the ones that are going to last and be the nicest for everyone. There’s no reason to waste that money to make separate wooden parks or dirt jumps or things like that. That’s just a waste of money and a waste of time. It’s a slap in the face to use. The stuff is just as important to us as a skateboarder’s skating is to them. We’re taxpayers too. We should have just as much going towards what we like as they do to them.

Older interview with Ian with some park and street riding. Not sure where the clip is from--maybe a Kink or a Props vid.

SFBG: What do you think abou the skate scene, and these young kids especially--it seems that they have this attitude that the most punk rock at the spot. Do you think skateboarding has kind of run out of its time as actually counterculture?

IAN: Yeah, I do. I mean, any time enough money gets involved in something, it loses that inherently, whether you like it or not. Maybe the old guys still have that mentality, because they’re not actually touching that money. But the kids are growing up in an industry that has millions and millions and millions of dollars involved in it. Yeah--it’s run its course. It’s not really that way anymore. I mean, if anything, I think you said before--BMX is still in that. I mean, we don’t have that much money in our industry, so we kind of hold that grassroots mentality a little more. It’s natural. That’s the way we’re actually living. We’re not living in these big houses making thousands and thousands of dollars a month.

SFBG: Which is funny, because from your perspective as a pro, you’re not making anywhere near what a comparable skateboard pro would make. But there’s also this attitude that I’ve heard that the BMX scene is for rich kids who can afford the bikes, and skateboarding is the sport of the proletariat or something.

IAN: I can see that, a long, long time ago, how that could’ve been the case. When maybe the money involved in our industries was more even. Because, you can spend $50-100 to get a skateboard, and you have to spend at least a couple hundred to get a basic BMX bike that can handle what we do. But that’s not the case anymore. I’ve had plenty of friends that are plenty poor, and they find a way to ride bikes. It really doesn’t hold somebody back. Anybody can ride a bike--anybody can get a hold of one.

SFBG: I was talking to Chris McMahon from sjbmx.com, and there seems to be this idea that skateboarders have an inherent disrespect for bikers because they think that, “anyone can ride a bike.” They think that somehow, because you’re “connected” to the bike, that you don’t really have skills. That it’s like being taped to a skateboard.

IAN: That’s kind of a ridiculous thing to think. I can see where that could stem from, if a skateboarder doesn’t put any kind of thought into it, and hasn’t really watched bike riders much or paid attention to what’s going on, what kind of effort they’re putting in, and what kind of skills it takes to do what they do. I think they’re more like, equating it, you know--jumping down five stairs on a skateboard just going forward, straight--is a lot harder than jumping down it on a bike. Anybody can do that, that has decent skills on a bike. They’re looking at it like that, but they’re not paying attention as it gets higher up, and things get more involved, and tricks get harder--maybe not respecting the amount of skill, or practice, or talent that it might take to make those tricks work.