That's a bit of an oversimplification. Were you the SF Bay Guardian staffer who was asked to leave by Gilman volunteers? If so, you should probably include that so people can figure out the context of your negative comments about Gilman volunteers.

I wasn't a part of whatever conflict you got into with other volunteers, but I hope your readers understand that we're a collective. Get 15 of us into a room & ask our opinion about anything and you'll get at least 25 answers.

I've been a volunteer since 1989 & helped coordinate the donation. I've had PHGP and Billie Joe acoustic both live on my KALX show at different points, and also co-wrote & support Gilman's no major label band policy. I also supported the Guardian & the Express getting passes to get into the show.

Clearly, it's not a black & white thing, and I wish you had been given the space & time to write a more in-depth examination of these issues.

Thanks for the comment.

In exchange for being allowed entry into the show, the promoter requested that I mention a specific concert he was promoting in the Guardian. I politely told him via the internet that I could not do that for two reasons: I do not decide what is published because I am not an editor, and more importantly, I am not ethically comfortable with that type of arrangement.

I made separate arrangements with Robert Eggplant because this lead promoter refused to add me to the list. Mind you, I never asked for free entry - I am a member of the club and I do not mind paying $6 for a concert. I was only asking to be guaranteed admission in the case that the show would sell out.

I arrived three hours early for the show and decided to seek out the promoter to try to mend fences and to briefly interview him for the story.

He told me that the only reason I am being allowed into the show is because Robert Eggplant and a couple others supported the idea, but he made very clear that he did not.

I thanked him, and apologized for not being able to mention the show he requested in the Guardian. Then I told him that he is more than welcome to send me e-mails when he thinks there is an upcoming particularly noteworthy show.

Personally, I do not enjoy hardcore or metal, but I am open to writing about bands of either genre. I explained this to the promoter, and in particular, I hoped that he would point out noteworthy hardcore or metal bands.

He flipped out. He said that if I don't listen to hardcore, that I "should not be the person to represent Gilman."

I was there to cover a pop-punk show.

I never claimed to represent anybody. I was there as a journalist to cover a concert. He had me escorted out of the building by security and said "I am sick of talking to you, you can come back in when the doors open." So yes, I was asked to leave by one volunteer with an overactive temper.

As I said in the blog, many people dread going to Gilman shows because of the elitist vibe from volunteers.

There I was - offering to let the promoter directly notify me of shows via my personal email - and instead, he became infuriated by the idea that I am not a fan of hardcore music. And kicked me out of the building.

Personally, I love Gilman and I attend shows at least once a month. I thought this conversation was an appropriate omission from the story because I am not interested making the entire club look bad because of one particular volunteer.

That, and it's a pretty bland and lengthy story.

In the blog post, I said that Eggplant was one of the only staffers who welcome the Guardian at the show, because I heard first hand that there was disagreement about allowing us in. I understand that it is a collective, and my post refers to the stress that being a volunteer entails.

I never intended to make this black-and-white, which is why I briefly showed both ends of the spectrum in the post: Eggplant, who welcomed Pinhead Gunpowder to the stage, and the lead promoter, who was seemingly bitter about the whole ordeal.

I appreciate your support in allowing me into the concert. I had a great time, like I have at countless other Gilman shows over the years. The new sound-system is fantastic.

Alex, As a member of Pinhead Gunpowder I would like to point out that your reporting of so called facts about this event and my bands relationship with Gilman are incorrect in many ways. My guitarists donation to Gilman was initiated six months before the idea was even brought up of PHGP performing. It was also intended as an anonomous donation, thanks for writing about it... The donation and up performing could not be more unrelated. The staff of gilman was in no way elitist to us or anyone else i witnessed at the show. In fact everyone I saw was having a great time.

I think that you were left jaded by our and the clubs decision to not take part in your interviews. We did not feel it was in the spirit of the event, as the show was not even advertised.I am sorry you felt the need to write about it a month later and take jabs at my band and gilman for your own insecurities. As a new journalist I hope you learn something from this experience. Spite has a nasty was of turning around on you.

Thank you for at least saying we sounded good even if you did not enjoy yourself...

Alex,

You specifically wrote us (Gilman) on two of our MySpace accounts in an attempt to get a "press pass". You also added, in your requests, that you were a member of the club and willing to wait in line and pay $6(yadda, yadda), which would have been easier and ultimately a bit more objective on your part, but whatever. In the end you found someone - Eggplant - who was willing to put you on his staff guest list (we all get one guest slot BTW). Victory was yours, but for a guy who was willing to stand in line, you really went out of your way to get on a guest list.

This quote: He flipped out. He said that if I don't listen to hardcore, that I "should not be the person to represent Gilman."

This is not at all what happened. YOU claimed that you are unable to cover most shows at Gilman because they are metal, hardcore, have screaming vocals, etc. In otherwords, not your thing. I said in the past month we've had bands like Trainwreck Riders, Von Iva, Jeffree Star, The Avengers, Babyland, Swann Danger, so on and so forth. You just gave me this blank stare and claimed you had been looking for a non-hardcore shows for the past 4 or 5 weeks (roughly a month) at Gilman. My response was that all of those bands I just listed had played the club in the last 4 or 5 weeks, and if you think those are hardcore, metal, etc., then you are probably not the best reporter to be covering Gilman.

The conversation basically went in circles from that point, mainly because you were intent on proving that you were knowledgeable about Gilman and many of the bands that play there, which you clearly are not. It was a relatively sedate exchange, and you were finally asked to leave when YOU couldn't, for some reason, let the subject die.

Your entire article could have benefitted from a quick fact check or two. For example, the PINHEAD GUNPOWDER show wasn't our biggest show in a long time. It wasn't even the biggest show that month.

For the record, I was the booker of the PINHEAD show, I am a long time friend of their drummer, and I was stoked that it was all happening at Gilman. I was also proud that we were able to have an electronics swap on the same day, which I asked you to take note of jokingly. The quote in your article didn't come from me, and I doubt from anyone else at the club, at least not in the manner insinuated in your article. It (the electronics swap) ended on time, at the same time it ends every time we've hosted one, and so once again your reporting fell short.

You insinuation that I was bitter about the show in any way shape or form is as laughable as your claim of attending a show at least once a month. At the end of the show, when staff and members of PINHEAD GUNPOWDER were playing basketball together and feeling good about the way the show turned out, you were long gone.

-Jay
volunteer and booker at Gilman

way to stand up for what really happened guys
i just felt that it needed to be acknowledged.
oh and by the way, as a person who waited all day for that show, it was one of the best i've seen in my life of ALL the bands...
one more thing, thanks for the doughnuts and coffee in the morning

WOW. I didn't realize what was going on when I was their but man. Besides Alex not having a good time I thought the show was great. Good sound system BTW. I also attended the Chain Reaction show in Anaheim (which was alot fun even though their sound system didn't sound very good but they had a nice huge screen of the bands playing next to the small stage) Kudos to Jesse, Bill, and Jay for sticking up for the club. I didn't get a negative vibe from the volunteers and I never have. I don't know if Billie wanted it to be public that he donated to the club but I think that's great that he did.

I remember my old band playing their about 10 years ago and the sound system I think sounded good back and even better now! I just wished I had more time to hang out at Gilman to see more up and coming bands. And also La Phebe was fantastic, everyone go check them out when you have a chance......

I am one of those people who like to find out what makes people tick...and I asked a few people who were waiting in line, "What is the ONE thing you are here for today."

All of the answers had to do with meeting (-------some---one---------)
Alex was no different, he just had an agenda.
He said he was there to do a story, but it didn't take long to figure out that he wasn't there for a musical review. So I asked him the same question.

He said he wanted to talk with (------some---one---------)to either confirm or deny the donation of the new sound systm.

This was news to me, but I didn't tell a soul
about it. I thought it might look bad for the band. I am glad that this article came into the light- if only to satisfy my morbid curiosity.

I am a total outsider, fying in from Albany NY to catch the Pinhead shows. I waa at the swap meet, and the show, and caught some of that basketball game too.
I had the best time ever, but I coulnt walk for 5 minutes after the show because my legs were numb from the circulation being cut off between the stage and the pushing crowd. AWESOME!

I even showed up a day early and offered my services to the benefit show w/IZZY OSBORNE the night before Pinhead. By the time I showed up at 7:00 there were allredy enough volunteers so I enjoyed the show and talked with some staffers about their thoughts on Pinhead playing tomorrow. Most of them really didn't give a shit about any controversy, but there were a few who said, Oh, you mean Green Day? I politely reminded them that it was Pinhead Gunpowder, NOT Green Day who were going to play.
All but one just shrugged their shoulders at that, except for one girl who said, "Yeah, but it's still eyeliner punk."

The Gilman staffers that I spoke to were very nice to me, even though I am an outsider. And even though a few of them found a sore spot with the show and the outsiders in attendance, I was still treated with respect.

Now that I know the truths about the whole "donation" thing, I just want to say that I think Gilman should have been more opportunistic and had some ventilation installed around the stage area.

The most punk thing I saw at this show was (------some---ones----------)guitar pick. HA! HA!

GERALDINE

I really think you guys feel like your standing for something,when in reality its about the music not politics .Who cares what buisness desisions Armstrong took in his life,and thats great that they donated a sound system.I see it as giving back to the people that helped make one of the top bands in the WORLD.Also the fact that they came from Gilman has made Gilman a club that is not only known in the bay area but to punk kids all over the world. So now Gilman is on the same list as clubs like,CBGB's,The Whiskey,Roxy etc..and being an age where the internet is a major way of comunicating and is world wide not just a 10 mile radius of the bay area.This guy Alex is one of those guys that thinks conflict will make him noticed or popular.Lets be real for a moment....
how many people that are 35 or older are comming out to see these new bands?Its time to cater to the kids like punk music has always has.If its eyeliner punk as described,who cares, its about a band playin music and kids being able to relate to the songs and feeling the music gives them.Sorry to see that a sound system donation is more important than a actual report on the show or venue.Im sure the next new band in Gilman will have a great experiance on the stage and be able to be heared by the punk kids that have always supported the music.Alex should go cover something he knows about.If he doesnt know shit about metal,punk,hardcore or the scene its great that he got the boot.Go cover a Britney Sprears scandle or something.As Gilman still caters to new bands and its not about money it will always be a great punk music venue.

Jay,
I am sorry, you seem to have misunderstood much of what I said to you. I never said that I couldn't go to hardcore or metal shows - I have been to them in the past - but rather asked for your help in pinpointing notable bands because I am not as familiar with the scene as I am with the pop-punk, punk, and indie scene. I considered it to be a kind gesture, but you took it in an entirely different way.

As to the point about the electronics swap, as we stood near the entryway, you pointed into the main area of the club as the electronics swap was still going on and said: "Make sure to mention in your story that we're shutting down this awesome DIY thing so that basically Green Day can come play." That is a direct quote, and I wrote it down immediately because you specifically wanted me to make that point. Please do not paint me as a liar.

You’ve treated me with nothing but disrespect and disdain since I first contacted you on the internet. You had an automatic preconceived notion that since I am with a mainstream publication, that I should be looked at with suspicion. Truth be told, I have booked many of the same bands that have played at Gilman for shows in my garage in San Francisco, and before that, in my hometown. And yes, I do attend Gilman shows at least once a month – I tried to see Kimya Dawson the week following this show, but it was already sold out when I arrived 45-minutes late.

But the fact that I do consider myself remotely involved in the Bay Area punk scene should be irrelevant. You complained that the press has never given proper attention to Gilman and that they only show up for bigger shows (you gave the Lookout! Records anniversary as an example), but then you jumped down my throat when I said that I do not enjoy hardcore and metal.

Whether I enjoy a type of music or not, I am willing to write about it. Yes, I would gladly write about Britney Spears if she were doing something noteworthy. I can listen to music that I do not personally enjoy and still write honest and fair descriptions and reviews. Do you think every music journalist truly enjoys every genre of music?

When I told you that I had pitched a write-up on the Acoustic Night with Kevin Seconds, you responded that you “didn’t blame” my editors for rejecting the idea. Does this mean that you don’t personally like acoustic punk music? Do you like every single band that you book to play at Gilman?

I approached you with open arms and offered to check out specific shows that you thought were noteworthy. Instead of accepting this invitation, you only paid attention to one part of what I said. I attempted to build a bridge, but you wanted nothing of it.

My biggest question for you is, why be suspicious of me to begin with? Why not welcome attention from the Guardian or other publications? Like Jesse said before, I am aware that Gilman is a collective, but as the lead booker, why do you personally feel so strongly against cooperating with the press?

Bill Schneider,

First of all, I never said that I didn't enjoy myself. I said both in the review in the paper and at the end of this blog post that I had a fantastic time. In fact, it was one of the best shows I have been to in ages. You’ve actually been on-stage for two of the most memorable shows in my life, the other being one that I promoted for your old band The Influents in my hometown four years ago. I would have attended this show regardless of whether I was writing about it for the Guardian. I’ve been a fan of your music for years.

I attempted to interview everyone in the band. I emailed everyone in the band multiple times to try to get a comment, but heard no response. Your brother responded to one email and said that he would forward the message on to you. I talked with Aaron for a bit the night before at another concert, but he didn't want to be quoted for the story.

I had a source at the club tell me that the donation had happened more recently, so I am sorry about the inaccuracy in the time table. If I had been able to speak to anyone in the band beforehand, this wouldn’t have slipped through. As for the donation being anonymous, that was never mentioned in the multiple conversations that I had staff members at the club, and quite a few people waiting in line outside seemed to already know about it.

As for people who were looking for purely a musical and experiential review of the concert, that is what was published in the paper. The show blew away all expectations and should be remembered for that.

However, I thought the general public would be happy to know that Gilman has a new sound system, and that is why I reported that information as a related blog post.

Thanks to everyone for commenting, I am glad that this is all being discussed.

and Bill,

I wrote this no more than four days after the concert. However, due to Noise Pop Festival and lack of space, it was pushed back a couple weeks.

I was not bitter about PHGP agreeing to an interview. The only thing about the entire evening that struck me the wrong way was Jay's attitude. I spoke to Billie and Jason momentarily and they were both nothing but gracious. I have no qualms with a band not wanting to be interviewed.

If anyone would like to contact me personally (go ahead and point out some awesome upcoming hardcore or metal shows), they can email me at Felsinger.Alex@gmail.com.

-Alex

correction: "about PHGP not agreeing to an interview"

I love how the Guardian is somehow considered mainstream, as if me and some of the other folks who work here didn't practically grow up at Gilman, and basically starve our butts off because we believe in the local scene. Guess I should have cashed in and followed Fallout Boy around for Rolling Stone after all ...

Alex,

I never said this: "Make sure to mention in your story that we're shutting down this awesome DIY thing so that basically Green Day can come play."

That is insane. You wrote this down and therefor it's true. Ridiculous. I never called you a liar in my previous response, but I may have to reconsider.

Oh, and this so called quote, perhaps from that same notebook: "When I told you that I had pitched a write-up on the Acoustic Night with Kevin Seconds, you responded that you “didn’t blame” my editors for rejecting the idea."

Where did you get those two words in quotations...taken out of context and used to serve your objective. All of your insinuations about me come from bad writing first of all, and bad journalism most of all. Those speakers were JBL not JVC by the way, but hey, who cares about the facts? I know you want to make it at the SFBG pretty bad, and would do almost anything to accomplish that...you expressed that to me (I think I scribbled it down on the back of a flyer while we talked), but at what expense? Sure it was an obvious move to use me (and other volunteers at the club) as some counterpoint to Eggplant in some weak attempt at creating tension, but if it's not actually true, then what do you have in the end? Journalism??

You leave out so much about yourself. Like, for instance, how when you wrote us initially you claimed that by covering this event for Gilman, you were really helping us out. Publicity, etc. This is the mindset I took offense to.

Yours,
Jay...Gilman volunteer, booker, etc.

Jay,

I didn't attend journalism school for years to get into the business of fabricating quotes. I have no fantasies of "making it at the SFBG," but I do have interests in creating a writing career of some form. I certainly don't need to make up quotes for a little blog post in order to get where I want to be. You can claim whatever you want, but I stand by the fact that you said those exact words to me. I thought such negative sentiments from the show's booker were both noteworthy and baffling.

And no, I didn't write down those two words in a notepad. I remembered them along with what you said, but didn't quote it because I didn't write it down. Because that's what I do -- I only quote actual quotes. Quotation marks around those two words was probably unnecessary, but that's just getting nit picky.

Speaking of nit picky, you claim that I lack journalistic integrity and give the example that I wrote the wrong brand of speaker in a blog post (My notes do say JBL; writing JVC was a slip-up, I apologize for the oversight). It feels as though you're trying to discredit me in any way possible because you said some things to me that you regret.

I only commented to you about the publicity that a story on the PHGP show would give the club after you tried to make arrangements to trade access to this show for coverage of another smaller show. I attempted to explain that any story about any show would benefit the club. How exactly was this off-putting to you? And again, as I asked you before, why the initial skepticism?

By the way, why did you jump right to asking a security guard to escort me out of the building? Why not politely say "I have to go now" and walk to the back room? If you were done talking to me, you could have just said so. I guess that wouldn't have been your style.

I am glad that you are not a representation of the entire club and that there are other volunteers with a more positive outlook than yours.

Alex,

I was the Security Guard that escorted you out of the building. Not something I enjoy doing, but when one of our staff members asks me to remove someone that is asking them to "step outside" while digging into their bag, will.

Pat Libby - Security, Volunteer, Gilman Shitworker etc.

I'm hanging out in a futuristic internet cafe in Tokyo, reading this and it's all very interesting. You know, I've been kicked out of Gilman before--the best thing to do in such a situation, is to have your shit together cos Gilmanoids are very smart. Just admit you've fucked up.

Molly,

You are welcome for the donuts.

Alex,

I forgot that as an elitist Gilman volunteer, I shouldn't hand out donuts to people (that had most likely never been to the club before) in line at 8 in the morning.

Pat Libby