Vancouver market is crazy.
No one knows how high it can go!

Well gee, that's a well thought out argument.

Wow, Vancouver implemented desirable housing features ("walkable neighborhoods, bike paths and a 'new urbanist' approach to housing") and demand for housing increased.

What would Marx say about increasing demand on a fixed supply?

I like and just about love Vancouver. In recent visits, though, I've noticed that a lot of Vancouver residents hate their current mayor and feel like the upcoming Olympics is causing huge problems.

Someone else would have to break down the ways in which this relates to the city's housing issues.

My point is that San Francisco's single most important issue is the lack of affordable housing -- and what Vancouver has learned is what we should realize here: Building more market-rate condos does NOTHING to bring down the cost of housing.

Without specific regulations demanding affordability, all that new urbanism does is bring rich people to attractive urban areas.

> Without specific regulations demanding affordability, all that new urbanism does is bring rich people to attractive urban areas

Perhaps we should confine the rich people to the suburbs, where they can wheel about their Blackhawk subdivisions in their big SUV's, unconcerned about things like urban sprawl or global warming.

As a renter in Vancouver I have a landlord that is from Iran and owns 5 condos in downtown Vancouver. He comes here once a year to check up on them. He has a guy constantly looking for him to buy more and more.

I also know people that have condos in Coal Harbour that only use them when they can't get home to their West Vancouver Mansions as they are too drunk or tired so they sit vacant 25 days of the month and continue to appreciate.

Gentrification is happening too fast in Vancouver. Schools are closing because nobody can afford kids anymore or wants to raise kids in a 1000SF condo.

As an condo owner in Vancouver i have to say: Vancouver is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, it have to be expensive. i don't want to have children not because they expensive, but because i have better things to do with my life. If you can't afford it, hey there is Calgary only 800 miles away, live there.

Lilia you ignoramus, that's the myopic, cringeworthy thinking I've come to expect from far too many of my fellow Vancouverites. Read this, you may get a chuckle:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071022.COBEERS22/TPStory/TPComment/BritishColumbia/

name calling? very classy. you are not happy here, just like i said: Calgary is only 800 miles away. i am not going to miss you. Or any other whiner who is not happy with the system or Vancouver.

Lilia, you are a flat-out idiot. Why don't you move to Moose Jaw because Vancouver and Calgary don't want you.

Ouch, ryan, you sound like one pissed off renter who got a run around by landlords. do you think may it's time to grow up, stop smoking dope, get back to school and finally get that real job. while you doing that a am going to buy more condos and rent them out. what is Moose Jaw? your middle name?

I'm a student who's worked for minimum wage a bunch of times, and I've lived in Vancouver my whole life. Lilia, if everyone who's a "whiner" about the ridiculous cost of living in Vancouver moves to Calgary, who's going to be working at Starbucks, Safeway, Silvercity or Chapters? The minimum wage is ridiculously low for anyone to support themselves on, and it's what many people in Vancouver are earning. While it's all fair and well for you to say that you're content with your condo and everyone else should quit bitching, maybe you should try to see the perspective of pretty much everyone in my generation. None of us forsee home ownership in Vancouver as a likely option unless we stumble upon sudden wealth somehow. Shouldn't Vancouverites born and raised here be able to forsee owning a house here someday?

I get a real kick when a Vancouver condo 'owner' (not naming names) talks down to what they consider second-class citizens, aka the city's army of renters, as if to say, "clearly, you didn't have the wherewithal to get to where I am today, that's a shame".

I guess that 5% downpayment on the 450 sq. ft. shoebox, complete with Murphy bed-foldout-dining-table combination, counts as 'ownership' to some. Hope the other 95% that the bank owns doesn't depreciate when supply outstrips demand in our fine town. I sure wouldn't want to be 'renting' money from the bank on a mortgage worth more than the underlying property...nah, can't happen here, it's different in Vancouver.

Elliot, I suspect you won't get much sympathy from Lilia, that is, if she fits the mold of the burgeoning new class of head-in-the-sand, egocentric Vancouverite - the "got my condo, got my lululemon, got my Caffé Artigiano - the world is in perfect harmony, and I'm self-actualized now" set.

villalobos, I think this article might give you an idea as to what is going on in Vancouver as it relates to the Olympics and social housing:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/06/28/OlympicHousingClaims/

The pompous, pretentious diatribe of Miss Lilia is the same of many condo owners in Vancouver. They have a vested interest in defending the outrageous prices here, eg: "it have to be expensive" (uh, in English next time?) ... they have their livelihoods completely defined, dependent & immersed in this cash-broke wealth status they belive they have. They MUST believe that prices/values will only go up, or they're completely screwed ... or they're head is just that far in up their ass. The 2010 Olympics, a two-week event has already caused a class-war here & that will eventually bankrupt the city, as well as speculative investing & hype among other factors have created this asinine market. It can not last & it doesn't take a crystal ball to figure that out ... but the 'drowning-in-debt' defense will always claim it's just naysayer slackers who didn't have the drive to get in at the right time. My household income is well over 100k annually ... I probably could enter in the market, but I'm not that stupid.

Hey Miss Lilia - do some reading (although judging from your orthography, it's probably not one of your strong points):
http://vancouvercondo.info/
http://news.goldseek.com/Grandich/1192464000.php

... you know, you've only 'made money on your investment when the cash is actually in your hand ... maybe if you get your nose out of the air, I'll be a saint & relieve of your burden after the crash ...

PS: Lilia sounds like many Vancouver women ... & trust me, the reason she's not having kids ain't because "she's got better things to do" ... way to uphold that stereotype!

who's going to be working at Starbucks, Safeway, Silvercity or Chapters?

Elliot, how do you think Lilia pays her mortgage? That's right, she's making your latte at SBux, ringing you through at Safeway, scooping your popcorn at Silvercity and wandering aimlessly at Chapters. When this business cycle plays out as business cycles always do, Lilia will be the one rattling her cup as you pass her by on Burrard.

If the core of the city becomes too expensive for most middle-income individuals it will foster more affordable development in smaller outlying communities, often increasing the quality of life there, as healthy, middle income families move there and contribute to the community. This is providing that suburban development is well thought-out and oriented towards true community-building, not merely satellite housing for commuters.
The idea that the closure of single-occupancy hotel rooms for low-income people is a bad thing also seems like a ludicrous romanticization; it would most likely be more healthy for a poor or struggling person to live in a smaller, more affordable community than in an urban core, and there is a lot of medical and sociological data to support this.
A beautiful urban core is an understandable place to attract wealth, and in many ways it seems like an appropriate setting for the wealthy. Let the extremely wealthy stay in their elegant multi-million condos -- most of us can find greater joy a few minutes away from the city, in a warmer community, with friendlier neighbours, with trees to look at, with peace and quiet rather than traffic noise, AND with affordable housing.

The problem with that scenario, Davidg, is that it encourages commuting -- and unless you have an awesom (and expensive) transit system, it encourages the use of cars. Which as we all know is a bad idea.

The suburban model is a failed model, and if inner cities become enclaves for the rich, cities will die.

Some more truth about Vancouver:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/10/18/ForeignAid/

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/10/23/Vancouver/

Part of the problem in Vancouver is that there is an old-money element, residing prominently on the West Side, who believe that affordable housing is something that belongs in every neighbourhood except theirs. The condo crowd downtown are affluent wannabes who want to emulate them.

A city dies when the urban core becomes an enclave for the poor. The U.S. has plentiful examples of this.

The previous generations of suburbia are, at worst, isolated non-communities with big houses, with people commuting on busy highways for hours per day.
The current economic pressures and growing awareness of the need for environmental responsibility, and also, I would hope, of the need for better quality of life, will favour the development of smaller, more affordable, more self-sustaining communities, in which the majority of people can be employed locally, instead of a long commute away. Probably it will favour better mass transit as well.
Ironically, when there are good examples of communities like this, it tends to attract wealthy people as well, because they see what a good life is possible there. I can think of various such communities in BC.

"The idea that the closure of single-occupancy hotel rooms for low-income people is a bad thing also seems like a ludicrous romanticization; it would most likely be more healthy for a poor or struggling person to live in a smaller, more affordable community than in an urban core, and there is a lot of medical and sociological data to support this."

davidg,

Sociological data is all well and good, but in one visit to the reality that is Downtown Eastside of Vancouver (DTES), and you'll see why no sociological theory can ever hope to fix the deplorable conditions there. Here's a taste:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/10/18/ForeignAid/

Ask any of the homeless, drug-addicted or otherwise, in the DTES whether they think getting booted out of their single room to make room for $1000/sq foot condos is "ludicrous romanticization".

Forgive me, but you sound a tad disconnected.

Tim,

I'm looking at the income tax rate for residents of Vancouver, which hovers around 55%. I'm guessing that they also have property and sales taxes to pay as well. All in all, taxes are probably devouring more than 60% of their income. And those rates go even higher if Vancouver residents are rich. And yet there seem to be continuing problems with many of the social ills that you seem to think would be better addressed in San Francisco if only we would raise taxes.

If we use Vancouver as an example of your fiscal theories in action, it would appear that your ideas don't work. How do you respond to that?

http://tax.yyconsulting.com/2007/05/tax-rate-for-bc-residence.html

For the record, for everyone's edification, I love Canada. It's a country with national health insurance, same-sex marraige, an army that believes in peacekeeping and you can drink at 19. Far more civilized than the U.S.

But I think Vancouver sucks as a model for urban planning in the United States, because all the new condos are not solving environmental and urban issues.

As for the tax rate: Canada has national health care and a far better environmental and social-safety-net system than the U.S. As I said, it's a civilized country.

But that doesn't mean that building housing for rich tourists in an urban core makes sense for anyone.

> As for the tax rate: Canada has national health care and a far better environmental and social-safety-net system than the U.S. As I said, it's a civilized country

No one is knocking Canada. But a 60% tax rate seems exorbitant, especially when it still isn't enough to purchase the perfect society that some think will result if only we'd tax the rich more drastically.

My guess is that a punitive tax policy would actually be harmful more than anything else.

I live in Vancouver and absolutely love the city. It's nice, the weather is wonderful (by Canadian standards), and the people friendly. That being said, it's no paradise.

I'm a renter and prices are absolutely soaring in this city. Right now I live in a decent apartment a bit far from downtown, but look to move closer. Although, rent is extremely low ($725), this is exceptional for here! There is virtually nothing decent under $1000/month (Check Craigslist to see for yourself: http://vancouver.craigslist.org/apa/).

While, as I mentioned, my unit is OK, smells and noises from my neighbours keep encroaching my apartment and the building is extremely badly managed. One example, one tenant sells drugs (marijuana, crack, probably crystal meth, etc.) on the first floor and the owner/manager doesn't do anything about that. Another reason I want to move out is that I don't think the building would survive a strong earthquake (like SF, "The big one" might strike anytime here too)

This bad management partly explains the "low rent" but the main reason there is bad management is that the owner has no interest in taking care of the building because I'm pretty sure he wants to sell the land to, you guess, one of those developers who want to build condos. The land is worth much more then structures here, probably about 4 times the value in Vancouver.

I'm not sure where "new urbanism" fits in here, but nice walkable neighborhoods, bike paths and getting the cars out of city centres doesn't have to mean building pricey condos that will be bought by people not living there themselves. The main reason, I feel, Vancouver housing situation is in such deplorable situation is lack of political leadership.

Our mayor, Sam Sullivan, and Premier of BC, Gordon Campbell, are only interested in money and not people. While, obviously, economic factors must be looked at, the fact is that provincial, municipal and even federal governments are doing absolutely everything in their powers to satisfy the needs of developers and established land-owning corporations. Social and affordable housing projects are completely set aside to make place for market-priced condos.

I am no expert, but I don't think "new urbanism" has to be automatically associated to pricey condos. If it includes norms that impose under-market value units, then the benefits of "new urbanism" could be share by everyone, not just people who can afford the nice condos.

A good neighbourhood should have diversity of people and not specialize to a certain socio-economic group. It should be a balance of rich, poor, old, young, big families, no children families. North America has too much of those neighbourhoods that have only one-type residents. Pluralism is not just ethnic diversity but also socio-economic diversity.

Thanks for your comments, Frederic. I don't think "new urbanism" has to mean condos for the rich and nobody else, but that's the way it's playing out in San Francisco -- and I fear, in Vancouver.

> North America has too much of those neighbourhoods that have only one-type residents. Pluralism is not just ethnic diversity but also socio-economic diversity

Frederic,
One of the reasons people are willing to pay premium prices is so that they can live in enclaves that are devoid of so-called "socio-economic diversity".

I'd be willing to pay to live in a wealthier neighborhood if only to avoid having to deal with your crack dealer neighbor on the first floor or your landlord looking to sell my building to real estate speculators.

More than that, I would want neighbors who cared enough about the community to make sure that it was socially, economically, and culturally healthy. And those types of neighbors tend to live in wealthier neighborhoods, not in neighborhoods that champion 'socio-economic diversity'. As a perfect example, I would point to the ultra-progressive (and very well off) City of Berkeley, which has a household income well above the national average.

Re: Latest comment by Jeff.

Wow! Completely disagree. People who care about their neighbourhoods come from all sort of socio-economic levels, not just well off. Many poor or "modest income" families care quite a lot about their neighbourhoods, just as much as rich folks do.

As for Berkeley, you mention that it's rich and progressive. You know just as well as me that it is the exception, not the rule.

Bob
Talk about the log in one's eye.
"...they're head...","...debt defence will always clean it's just...",etc.
In English please!
I am a renter and had lived in London,New York and Vancouver.Vancouver's rental prices are pretty high but property costs are still LOWER.I don't know the solution but Vancouver is probably going through what other big cities had gone through.Locals are understandably put off.But most of the arguments,curiously enough,sound so ex-hippie,communistic and downright naive!
The tension between locals and non-locals are palpable.The latter are given the silent treatment,part of the famous passive-aggressive strategy.I am concerned one of these days the tension might erupt...It is easier to tear down and everyone,local or not,will suffer the consequence.Non-local can always leave...

Ascending to world world class status usually means losing a city's provincial or local flavor and becoming more like every other major metropolis. Vancouver should have expected that this would happen sooner or later. And the arguments against it tend to sound like all the ones put forward in the past. I can only imagine the xenophobic howls that will follow Vancouver's hosting the Olympics.

Yea, Vancouver isn't all that great, but one big issue forgotten here isn't the expensive lifestyle but all of the CHINESE PEOPLE HERE, ITS UNBELIEVABLE!!!! This is Practically China

Its a great city if you can be on Prozac from Sept to April to handle the seasonal affective disorder and the clouds 10 feet off the ground. If you like cloudy, rainy, dark days, Vancouver is your city. Not sure how that is better than cold and sunny really. If you want a west coast city with decent weather try San Diego. San Francisco is too cold too half the time too. Vancouver has 2 weeks of good weather and 365 days of horribly high prices. The bubble should pop soon. Probably before the Olympics as the US heads into a recession bringing the export economy of China with it soon thereafter.

I've lived in Vancouver my whole life. It use to be such a humble city but so much has changed. For the worse.

Housing is ridiculous and the price of family homes is driving locals out completely. Its just too expensive to live here for the average person. Everything is more expensive here, including food and other day to day things.

Homeless and drug problem. Really. Its insane. If you come here, go down to the corner of Main and Hastings and witness it first hand. It is, without a doubt the worst case of open drug use and homelessness you will ever see in a Canadian city, possibly even in the States. Its like the walking zombies zone. But the "beautiful" trendy downtown area is literally blocks away. They just build around them condensing the area more and more.

Nothing noticeable is being done to help these people. It just gets worse.

Then there is the non drug addicts in this city. Like others have mentioned in this thread, gentrification is a serious problem. Neighborhoods are being destroyed and the people that live next door to you just don't seem to want to say hello or lend you that cup of sugar. Everyone wants their own space and doesn't want to get to know their own neighbor. Probably because everyone is literally speaking different languages. Vancouver is basically turning into a giant resort town now.

Vancouver will be seen like Hawaii in no time. Tourists based and an exploited sense of native culture. For a local this isn't really an appealing future. There are not enough interesting things going on in Vancouver for someone like me to stay. The night life sucks, the art scene is meh, major music acts skip the town entirely, buildings from 1965 are considered heritage, and most of all....I don't want to spend a half million on 500 square feet of Ikea style semi disposable condos that might leak.

Feb 1st 2008 is my last day. I'm packing up my home business and moving to Berlin. And I'm not the only one. Many long time Vancouverites have had enough of this place. Good luck Vancouver. I look forward to coming back here as a tourist one day and having the time to go for a hike and maybe a swim....if I can time my vacation for those 3 or 4 sunny weeks in summer that is.

p.s. Last June it rained for 23 days straight. Thanks for that.

I've lived in Vancouver my whole life. It use to be such a humble city but so much has changed. For the worse.

Housing is ridiculous and the price of family homes is driving locals out completely. Its just too expensive to live here for the average person. Everything is more expensive here, including food and other day to day things.

Homeless and drug problem. Really. Its insane. If you come here, go down to the corner of Main and Hastings and witness it first hand. It is, without a doubt the worst case of open drug use and homelessness you will ever see in a Canadian city, possibly even in the States. Its like the walking zombies zone. But the "beautiful" trendy downtown area is literally blocks away. They just build around them condensing the area more and more.

Nothing noticeable is being done to help these people. It just gets worse.

Then there is the non drug addicts in this city. Like others have mentioned in this thread, gentrification is a serious problem. Neighborhoods are being destroyed and the people that live next door to you just don't seem to want to say hello or lend you that cup of sugar. Everyone wants their own space and doesn't want to get to know their own neighbor. Probably because everyone is literally speaking different languages. Vancouver is basically turning into a giant resort town now.

Vancouver will be seen like Hawaii in no time. Tourists based and an exploited sense of native culture. For a local this isn't really an appealing future. There are not enough interesting things going on in Vancouver for someone like me to stay. The night life sucks, the art scene is meh, major music acts skip the town entirely, buildings from 1965 are considered heritage, and most of all....I don't want to spend a half million on 500 square feet of Ikea style semi disposable condos that might leak.

Feb 1st 2008 is my last day. I'm packing up my home business and moving to Berlin. And I'm not the only one. Many long time Vancouverites have had enough of this place. Good luck Vancouver. I look forward to coming back here as a tourist one day and having the time to go for a hike and maybe a swim....if I can time my vacation for those 3 or 4 sunny weeks in summer that is.

p.s. Last June it rained for 23 days straight. Thanks for that.

Vancouver has nothing to offer except most of the time lousy weather (rain rain , freakin's so much of it you could irrigate some desert country with it), no cosmpolitan flair at all its more like a small town feel for a place with more than 1.2 million, people are not any more friendly than back in Eastern Canada ( so whoever said otherwise likes living off a myth), the city has no cultural diversity ( half population here are Asians, who tend to run small business, keep to themselves and are only interested in making money and in their families) and on any given day you will discover here that Sushi bars are everywhere( which aren't even run by Japanese but by clever Chinese businessmen who steal ideas from others - very unoriginal !!). How can anyone call this multicultural ? I guess only those can who either haven't travelled abroad to places like New York or London and don't value real cosmopolitanism, whose ideal life consists of living in expensive condos and going skiing in Whistler, or just only those who enjoy doing other outdoors activities- - of course for them this must be heaven on earth-so to speak as good as it gets. Coming from Toronto, I can tell you this place has ZERO diversity,its very dull. I have been to Seattle several occassions and I am always amazed how fresh that places remains, they tend to be much more diverse and they have a great line up of local and international bands and ongoing and acclaimed cultural events ( i.e. Bombershoot or however its spellt). I can't wait to head back east to Toronto, Vancouver is all hype but lacks substance. I think Toronto sucks in certains ways no doubt, but it sure as hell beats Vancouver at any given day ( probably Montreal is the real cosmpolitan Canadian city because it has everyhting, the good the bad n ' ugly , French- English etc).

If you rent here, just ask yourself this question, when will I be able to own my own home? If the answer does not come to you at first. Do your own homework. Walk away from the stylish ads, either from developers, or government slogans. If you calculate the real costs of home ownership, ie the downpayment, bank charges, please remember to calculate the interest that you will be paying too. Someone I know bought a house in the lower mainland recently. They paid close to $700,000 for a 70's house. One income family. two young kids. and when he's paid off that interest after ten years, that house will cost him more than a million dollars. More than a Million dollars in Canada for a 1970's house! Open your realtylink magazine for west Vancouver and the prices will make you shudder. Vancouver is Vancouver. Yes, it's true. Downtown Vancouver does shine like a diamond on a nice day. Yet, it cost's much more. If you are waiting for the bubble to burst after the Olympics, you will be waiting for a long long time. By that time, the price will have gone up so much that it will take as much time to come down.

Remember, everything Vancouver has is available somewhere else in another form. Living standards are almost the same across Canada. Housing prices are happily not. To be honest, shopping is the same everywhere in Canada. Lifestyle is similar across western Canada.

I asked myself that question and it haunted me. As a former realtor, and someone who has travelled across the world. I knew the answer. Vancouver is not Manhatten. Not New York. Not Hong Kong. Nor is it Singapore. It is a beautiful place. I love nature and Vancouver has it in abundance. I also know that Vancouver's housing market is 'unhealthy' and that is why the government has to pay young families who struggle to make ends meet financial assistance to stay here. When you are in a unhealty market, you can do three things. Own. Rent and wait for the market to become healthy again or leave for better place to live. I choose the third option because I will never be sick enough to pay a million dollars to live in a 1970's house in Canada. No big deals. There will be others who stand in line to pay for overpriced houses because they are worried that I had better buy before the price goes up. Why is Vancouver so expensive in the first place? It is not Manhatten. Nature only fascinates people for so long. I saw some Japanese tourists at the totem poles in Stanley Park and they were yawning...

John,I agree with certaing things you said I am not a realtor or a developer,but believe urban devleopment must mean more than gated condo communities and sushi restaurants. I think "why Vancouver is or remains to be so expensive " is an enigma, and perhaps not so easy to answer. However I think it may have to do with the geographical location ( stuck on a penisula on the lower mainland, no room for expansion) and maybe city politics that are quite ineffective, given as you say that the government has to subsidize low income families so they can barely survive there. But you must also bear in mind that tiling up the place with more expensive condos isn't the solution to Vancouver's problem, I think thats apparent. Just take a look at Hastings East, the known and deprived quarter for druggies and deadbeats, do you think the Olympics and redevelopment plans will make a difference to that area ( ie. gentrification)? If you think it will, it could also take forever. I doubt it will, it is very clear to me the city, unlike New York or London, in terms of urban planning has no political will or interest to promote proper redevelopment of deprived areas ( i.e compare that to redevelopment of Harlem on Manhattan Island in 1990's or London's redevelopemnt of Dockland ie, Shoreditch and parts of the East End). In fact it is much more likely that prices in the downtown core, i,e Yaletown etc will rise more dramatically. I am quite aware of home ownership issues, and know from a friend that interest bites esp when you gotta repay your mortage, and i think it doesn't really matter where you are in Canada, its like that, banks do not hand out money for altruistic reasons, but for profit, everyone knows that !. People should inform themselves properly before making such serious decisions. I am not in a postion to buy a home for a long time coming, but what concerns me is that Vancouver shines, but doesn't have the substance to back it up. If it did, you wouldn't have Hastings East, nor would you see japanese tourists who yawn at the totem poles in Stanley Park or for that matter once again the very provincial non cosmopolitan feel of Vancouver ( if you have travelled to New York you will know what I mean). I think much more depends on what you personally think or define as being most important to you about a place.

I am very upset because I am 19 years old, going to University, and I won't be able to move out on my own until I'm at least 25! I already make almost double the minimum wage working in a bank, but even if I worked full time and moved out, I wouldn't be able to save, pay for gas, insurance, food, clothing and entertainment and still live comfortably. The "norm" was that youth moved out around my age, but nobody I know can move out (alone) yet. When I talk to people my age, they all agree that it is infuriating to not be able to be independent while going to school, and maybe not even after since most students have loans they need to pay off.
So, ridiculous school prices coupled with ridiculous, artificial housing/rental prices result in very unhappy youth who will eventually leave the city (like me). What will happen then? Vancouver will be left with rich (but aging) baby-boomers, rich older immigrants and drug addicts. And guess what, that'll be the future labour force of Vancouver since people my age are, for the most part, discouraged and unhappy. I don't know what a city would be like with virtually no youth in it to sustain it. I'm not exaggerating, everybody I talk to says there's plenty of "cities in the sea" and Vancouver is definetly not worth the time for a young person with so many opportunities available to them. This is one thing that hasn't been focused on too much, but it should be more talked about, otherwise how is this city going to keep its already migrating youth??

Lilia, not sure if you are still reading this, but after reading your posts I have something to say.

Yes, Vancouver is beautiful, but it's far from heaven. Best place to live is not only characterized by beauty and mountains but economical situation as well. Here, in Vancouver, in order to afford a 2 bedroom condo in the decent area (such as the west side), a family of 4 has to have very high income. Most young families are driven away from the city because they can not make $400,000 per year and can't afford to buy $480, 000 condo. Now, you might say, don't have kids then, well, kids are the future and if no one has them (for whatever reason) then we will have no future.
My point is that the situation with housing here is not healthy economically.

And yes, I have a BSc degree, make a decent living (higher than the average) as a web developer, and couldn't afford to buy a condo in Vancouver. I am saying this before you tell me to get a job etc etc. You do sound like an ignorant person.

I'm not sure if this post is stilll active but here goes: I am young, got a BA in Media Arts, and poor - I will leave Vancouver as soon as I get the opportunity. I am going to LA, then to Europe to look around for a BETTER PLACE. Vancouver is dark, rainy and depressing most of the time, expensive and gray. I can not build a life here. "The Best Place on Earth". Yeah... just ask the homeless people of the Downtown Eastside, or the dis empowered youth, or the families who can hardly afford rent. No doubt for wealthy immigrants from Hong Kong, or old money English people from West Vancouver, this is the city of Dreams, but most people now can not afford to live here. Vancouver is not a "GREAT" Metropolis it wants to believe it is especially if the young people pack up and leave.

Vancouver sucks... it's a beautiful location and good people, but it's a city that is being run into the GROUND by it's obsession with being "world class".

Check out Vancouver Sucks- vancouversux.blogspot.com

Hello, yes the truth is if you are a World Class city then why do you have to keep advertising it? Vancouver is a very beautiful city but a major rip-off. This city has so many financial problems and for the most part crappy weather. All we hear about now is 2010 and the city is getting into major debt for this that the poor tax-payer is going to get stuck with. What about bridges, health care, old age homes and starter, affordable homes for young families. You never hear about the poor working class that always get stuck with the tab. This city is being built for the Rich Only.

I moved away. Simply had to. The rain made me suicidal. The cost of living went into the stratosphere. There was no culture, and no fun. Yes, I admit, for three weeks or so every summer, the sun comes out, and Vancouver shines. The women are beautiful, and there is a certain something that Vancouver has...but then that first rain in September comes, and you know - you just know - its all over for another year. You sigh wearily, and brace yourself for the wind, the rain, the cold, the dreary methed out alcoholic looking street people, the crackheads in the alleys, the endless parade of panhandlers....the grumpy locals who wont make eye contact or smile at anyone on the street. The condos you cant afford. The overpriced food at the market. The complete and utter lack of entertainment. The pathetic attempt at metropolis on Granville street, complete with imported crowds of bridge and tunnel revelers lining up for cheesy bars, only to come out 6 hours later, and fight in the street. You look at picture books of the quaint village of Vancouver from 40 years ago, and see beautiful buildings long since torn down to make uninspired towers of beige and green. The place has no soul. The nature around Vancouver is the only heart and to be seen, and anyone who lives in Vancouver would sell that out for a dollar if given the chance. Half a million dollars for 750 square feet, and neighbours who dont speak to you, or cant speak your language. Lonely, sad, desperate Hastings street lurking on the fringe, a reality check ignored by the bourgeois masses on their way to Starbucks.
I moved to a hellhole like Los Angeles, and found life and community. People who smile at you in the checkout at the supermarket. Food I can afford. Reasonable rent. Lots of things to do on any day of the week. Do I miss the nature? Of course....but its still in Vancouver, and I can go there and visit any time I want, as long as I bring enough money to afford the overpriced undersized meals I will buy there. They say you can use chocolate as a gage of the cost of living in a society. In L.A. i can buy 3 kit kats for a dollar. In Vancouver, I can buy one for 1.29.
Thats almost enough for a hit of crack down at Pain and Wastings.

born and raised in vancouver...the best thing i did to better my life and raise my standard of living was to get the F out.

the weather sucks 9 months out of year and when summer does roll out and the girls wear their pretty revealing outfits...you could/would get arrested for looking at them. vancouver women are so emotionally damaged, they are not worth the time to talk to let alone spend a dollar on. what a F'ed up place. trust me, there girls are that pretty in vancouver but most of them are dumpy, pasty white and just plain bitches that are 100% impossible to please.

i'll get to housing in a little bit.

the social political environment of vancouver is the most narrow minded, aggressively one sided ill informed opinions i have ever encountered in north america. vancouverites like to think they are well versed and sensitive to topics of the world but in sad reality...are just regurgitating some swill that some profoundly low iq extreme left wing socialistic dim wit decided to spew out at the moment. vancouverites are famous for knowing everything about absolutely nothing. how do i know this? i was one these nimrods. i would spew sh!t out like it was holier than the water that flows from the vatican...but only later to find out that i was absolutely 100% wrong. when i visit my friends and family...i get to hear the same bs that i spewed out...THAT is how i knew that i did this and this is how i know that it continues to this day.

nature. great. yeah, it's beautiful. but what if you could care less about nature? has anyone from vancouver lived in the midwest of america? all they care about is beer and sports. if you dont like those two things, youre screwed. well, that is what vancouver is like for me. how many freaking outdoor stores are there? really, how many gortex jackets do you need? if you need more than one, doesnt that mean the 25 gortex jackets you bought are poorly designed/made? yes, there are people who like hiking, kayaking, fishing, wind surfing etc. i HATE all of that.

food. oooh, vancouver is a culturally diverse city that is 'world acclaimed' to be the best place in the world to live? well, from a guy that has livedm in a lot of different places...vancouver sux balls for food unless you like chinese food. yeah, the chinese food is great. i agree. the japanese food has become awash with the chinese and korean pushing out low quality and inferior japanese cuisine. continental western food? sucks. every restaurant i have visited (and yes, i can afford any of them) has food that is barely palatable to choke down. wine selection? what a freaking joke. i have yet to encounter any vancouverite that is a connoisseur in food or wine. oooh, bc wine. F'en swill that i wouldnt even use to clean my drains with.

cultural diversity. what a sad pathetic joke this is. here's the down low on this. white people hate asians and asians could care less about anyone but themselves. that is about it. i have never ever encountered such passive aggressive racism in my life. united states known for their racism? you bet! but for the most part, americans are somewhat honest and forward about racism issues. canadians ignore it, pretend it doesnt exist or talk about 'tolerance'. you know what 'tolerance' is? it's 'i am going to f'en endure whatever p!sses me off royally as long as i can and hate you secretly'. wow, does that describe canadians or what? how many KKK graffiti do i see tagged on the walls of everywhere? it is stupid sabre rattling wannabe gangster posing. want to see real inner big city violence? i'll drop you off in the ghetto of south central and watts...let's see how your street cred pans out.

vagrant population. why? why the F why hasnt the city just swept up these bums and vagrants from hastings? isnt it ironic, absolutely ironic that the biggest bum population is basically right beside the main police station. oh, and dont forget the 'illegal but legal' prostitution that is is also basically right beside the main police station. this is the hypocrisy of vancouver. self perceived world class city that has the homeless and mentally ill situated right in the center of it. bravo vancouver...bravo.

cosmopolitan metropolis? what a sad pathetic joke this is. wow, let's stroll down robson street. oh, dont forget that you will be doing it in the rain for 9 months of the year. the rodeo drive of vancouver? have any vancouverite been down rodeo drive? i live in southern california...and let me tell you about high end fashion, style and refinement. take the most 'sophisticated' vancouver resident and put him/her beside anyone rolling down rodeo drive and they will look like a hill billy. dont care if you believe me, i have seen it. it's sad, pathetic and funny all at the same time. vancouver desperately wants to be 'cosmo' but doesnt have a F'en clue on what class is. hint: you cant buy class. and you cant buy style. vancouverites look like look like white trash dressed in barely stylish and tasteful last years fashion. now, i am not saying that appearance makes the person...but it does reveal a lot about them now, doesnt it?

housing. finally. why is it so F'en expensive? expensive? you want to know what expensive is? vancouver real estate pricing is a cheap joke. look at how much prices in london, moscow, manhatten and beach properties of southern california run. vancouver real estate expensive? yes, i agree somewhat. it is expensive for buying some rain soaked wooden box on a piece of land that is smaller than my driveway. it is expensive for a wooden box located in a city with the most bitter, passive aggressive, pseudo intellectual, cold natured, apathetic, racist population of people i have ever encountered in my travels and various cities i have resided in. it is expensive for a wooden box 20 stories in the air where the neighbor the next door down could care less to know your name let alone if you die.

what would i do with a vancouver home? hey, i'm a businessman. i would keep it. rent it out to the poor slobs that will never be able to afford one of these 1 million dollar boxes.

Vancouver fucking sucks. That's why I left that town for bigger and better things. Don't get me wrong, I love Vancouver as a city, when I come back to visit for, oh 5 days at a time, before I become bored as hell and my eyes roll back into my head from the idiocy of the people in this city. I love the restaurants, outdoor activities, Summer weather and real-estate in certain parts of the city (Point Grey, North Shore). The young people in Vancouver, however, having obviously been beaten by an ugly-stick and unable to get laid attempt to get their sexual frustrations out by acting like black thugs in the middle of a ghetto. They think that rap videos are the way black people act in real life because Vancouver has no black people to really give this city some flavor.

That's why I'm so tough on most of you narrow-minded assholes, who don't recognize just how much you suck. It starts with the Stalinist attitude toward "aggressive driving," and the anti-car culture in the city, when strangely enough Vancouver has some of the worst, most idiotic albeit slow drivers in the world. Anyone daring to drive at a reasonable clip looks like a maniac about to mow down a bunch of kids outside an elementary school.

The nightlife is equally boring. A couple of shitty clubs with a bunch of vacuous cunts and pricks who shop at the Bay thinking they're cool in their Chinese made "designer" clothes. These bitches are mostly out to pose and see how much attention they can get to stroke their fragile egos, rather than to get laid. Fuck you. Don't bother caking your face with enough makeup to look like a whore if you aren't planning on fucking. The city I live in has REAL door bitches screening who gets to go into the exclusive clubs and they don't give a fuck how busy it is inside, they _will_ turn you away. Not good looking enough? Sorry, members only. Wearing a stupid looking outfit? Sorry, members only. Skid marks in your underwear? Sorry, members only. These clubs invite the right mix of fashionistas, hoi polloi, metros and other pretty fags, models and modelizers to make sure their club remains exclusive and every night is memorable as a result.

What's with the goatee, piercings, tatoo, can you guess how much pot I smoke from my yellow-stained teeth trend that seems to be engulfing Vancouver? Don't plan on getting a real job anytime soon, buddy. Ooops, there aren't any real jobs available in Vancouver anyway, because the city sucks so bad no real company would want to open their headquarters here.

Don't even get me started on the petty crime, the ever popular b-list drugs and the stupid lineups outside an empty club...

Vancouver is a lot like the bathroom in my house. You have pretty much everything you need to live there, but even with the window open, sooner or later, everything begins to smell like shit.

The club scene in Vancouver is a joke with only very few attractive girls. In fact, most of the very beautiful and classy girls are not even at the club to begin with. Ever been to clubs during the day and see their location and their appearance? They look horrible, hardly classy. If you disagree, take a trip to Montreal, Europe or Vegas. While I’m not much into clubbing I can assure you Vancouver ranks miserably compared to other cities.

The club, I will admit though, is a great place to pick up a skank. The semi attractive girls in these substandard establishments dress to show off their assets in the hopes of finding a free drink, ride home, or maybe some material goods. They should make shirts for Vancouver bitches that read:

“Will give Hand-job for Hand-bag”

While Vancouver has a lot of great places to eat, most people never frequent them because they are too busy trying to look cool while waiting in line at Moxie’s, Craptis Club, Earls, Milestones or anywhere else where you can fit in with the yuppie with a puppy persona.

“Oh isn’t your cute doggy going to be cold?”

“Don’t worry, Gucci, that’s his name, has a Luis Vitton Jacket in his very own coach puppy purse!”

At this point you would hope the masses of Chinese people in Vancouver would quickly nab the dog and pan fry that little motherfucker into some Potstickers. Unfortunately no.

You see, they are too busy trying to shoe-horn their C 230 Elegance Mercedes (with hubcaps), a very tedious and difficult manoeuvre, into something far more rare than their car… a parking spot on Robson after 8pm. In case you didn’t know, it’s free after 8pm, and what self respecting Asian wouldn’t want to have a free parking spot? Of course, they are trying to back into a spot, blinded by Sanrio and Mashi Maro characters while talking on the phone and trying to take pictures of street vendors.

So what is there to do in Vancouver? If you can’t leave the house without wearing designer socks in fear of not ‘fitting in’ there are places for you. If you’re into video games and shopping and drinking coffee, you are also well taken care of. If you enjoy taking pictures, homosexuals, waiting in lines for nothing and 600 square foot living arrangements, Vancouver really was made for you! And if you have a credit card from every credit union, bank, and department stores, have a line of credit, car payments, think leasing is a great idea and you put a folded piece of toilet paper in your ass crack so you don’t dare skid mark your $300 Versace man thong, you ARE Vancouver.

Fuck you.