Okay this is an easy one. Over 70 per cent of people under 25 voted NO on 8... Sure it can pass ALL it wants to today... Give it 5 years and that S**T will be OVERTURNED AND OR REVOTED AND IT WILL FAIL. All it takes is 5 more years of old ignorant folk passing away

It's about protecting marriage (as in like making it a protected class). Anyone can express love, share assets, pay taxes together, etc. Nobody is banned from that. It doesn't take a marriage to accomplish those things.

Just like not everyone is entitled to minority scholarships or handicap stickers for their cars, not everyone is entitled to marriage either. If you want to understand why I feel this way, then read my blog article.

http://joey.mimweddings.com/Bloggy/2008/11/04/proposition-8-and-protection-of-the-definition-of-marriage/

@ Tristan.

Who gives you the right to make a broad generalization about a whole group of people. Calling a whole demographic of people "ignorant" is quite ignorant don't you think?

This argument will be around for awhile, but I'm surprised at both parties inability to reason with each other.

No on 8 is making this seem as if it's a big civil rights issue. Yes on 8 is going so far as to project blatant detestation at the gay community in general.

Either way, both parties were extremely ostentatious in their claims. The answer to me lies in the gray. Gay people should have civil unions which are no different than all the rights a married couple would have, just by another name. Marriage after all was derived from religious doctrines and if the public at large wants the religious practice marriage kept between a man and a woman then so be it.

But I'd still want either couples, gay or straight to be able to have the same exact rights concerning relationship unions. Thanks for reading.

@Jesse

Get your facts straight, no pun intended. This can, and will be overturned within the next 5 years. There are so many bills that have been denied/accepted and then come back and "MAGICALLY" appear again and are turned around. Even in a few months, IF the supreme court decided to legalize gay marriage again, they would be able to do so. Unless you are old, I hope you can accept the rest of your life living with gay marriage in CA. Otherwise, move to Texas.

@Siddharth

Ok then. You're insinuating no one has a right to tell me who and what I can't marry?

So I suppose in the future, it should be ok for a brother and brother to marry? Or say a 20+ y.o man and a 14 year old female to marry. Oh and don't forget polygamy, I'm sure we have no right no infringe on that?

Thing is, considering we live in a democracy, the people get to decide what they deem better for them at the moment. Sure, ideas may change in the future, but until then, you have to deal.

Whether gay marriage would have a negative, discernible effect on society is up in the air. Either way, we decided as a people, so stop with the finger pointing.

@Siddharth

Ok then. You're insinuating no one has a right to tell me who and what I can't marry?

So I suppose in the future, it should be ok for a brother and brother to marry? Or say a 20+ y.o man and a 14 year old female to marry. Oh and don't forget polygamy, I'm sure we have no right no infringe on that?

Thing is, considering we live in a democracy, the people get to decide what they deem better for them at the moment. Sure, ideas may change in the future, but until then, you have to deal.

Whether gay marriage would have a negative, discernible effect on society is up in the air. Either way, we decided as a people, so stop with the finger pointing.

SAYS BIGOT...

"Just like not everyone is entitled to minority scholarships or handicap stickers for their cars, not everyone is entitled to marriage either..."

SAYS PERSON WHO WANTS NOTHING MORE THAN TO PROMISE THEIR LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY TO THE PERSON THEY LOVE...

unbelieveable...

What are you talking about? that is a horrendous analogy...why not just mention fire and brimstone.

Grown equals, who are not interferring in other people's lives, have a right to formally promise their devotion to each other.

Bigotry is just about being empty, envious and small

...and love is just love my friend.

@Siddharth

Ok then. You're insinuating no one has a right to tell me who and what I can't marry?

So I suppose in the future, it should be ok for a brother and brother to marry? Or say a 20+ y.o man and a 14 year old female to marry. Oh and don't forget polygamy, I'm sure we have no right no infringe on that?

Thing is, considering we live in a democracy, the people get to decide what they deem better for them at the moment. Sure, ideas may change in the future, but until then, you have to deal.

Whether gay marriage would have a negative, discernible effect on society is up in the air. Either way, we decided as a people, so stop with the finger pointing.

*note: Had trouble posting this msg earlier.

lol sry for multiple reposts.

Had trouble working this POST hah!

@ Christina

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

@ Tristan: It's going into the constitution bud. Once it's in, there's no taking it out. Sorry.

What do you mean "protect" marriage? That is semantic bullshit. You aren't protecting anything.

You are denying the fundamental right of equality. Marriage is a concept older than any religion, and you have no business thrusting your religious views on other people to define what they can/can't do.

As Tristan said, when the old, religious conservative people die of natural causes, this injustice will be overturned.

@Jesse

Sorry bud, the constitution is not like your silly religious texts. It can (and will) be amended.

Sorry to break it to you Tristan, but there is a huge latino and black population in Los Angeles. And according to statistics, latinos and blacks are of many that voted yes on 8. For latinos, it is the catholic culture and background they come from, and the great family values they have. Latinos are the greatest population rising, each latino giving a population growth of 2.4 kids. You think gay latinos create babies?

Fuck 5 years its already overdue. We need equal rights NOW. Roday as i voted I optimistically pictured what my wedding might be like, Tom Ford tuxes, the south of france, some amazing man i've yet to meet. I want my damn rights and my Tom Ford tux bitches

Arguing that marriage is a tradition grounded in religion seems to me to violate the constituitional requirement of the separation of church and state therefore the state should not be allowed to sanction marriages. Rather, all couples, gay or straight, wanting to marry should be required to seek a legal civil union from the State. Then if the couple wants they can seek to be married in the eyes of their God by their church. Everyone's legal rights - granted and protected by the State - would be equal, and everyone's perceptions of God's rules would be served.

All I have to say is that our president Obama is for NO on 8...and in his speech when he was elected president he said All Americans..Black, White, Hispanic, Native American, "GAY", and Straight a CHANGE is coming. So that tells me that Prop 8 won't change the fact that being gay is going to be excepted because our nations leader is supportive of eliminating discrimination. I'm sure that the nation as a whole will show true and eliminate discrimination against homosexuality.

I'm a Black, former-Catholic, Gay, Princeton University graduate, African American. I have been fighting for Gay rights for many years, and I really wouldn't wait another minute, never mind five years, to be treated fairly. Personal discrimination hurts, but legalized discrimination is like a constant slap in the face from everyone around me. Gay marriage already exists in some progressive countries. Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Canada and South Africa, all guarantee equal rights, including marriage, to Gay citizens in their constitutions. I came to the Netherlands with the US Army years ago. I would love to come home to America, but I decided long ago never to return as long as legalized descrimination exists there. I'm still hoping to come home one day, but until something changes to correct the unfair laws in the States, I won't return.

The real question is not about marriage.

It is not even about discrimination either.

The real question behind all of this is: “Is there a devil?” and “Is there a God?

Are there Constitutional Rights of the universe that far exceed our limited view of things? What are the consequences that will take place?

For the wooden or metal chair to say no one made me would be shocking and unreasonable, such a glaring error that one would hesitate in even suggesting such a thing. Yet many walk on this earth, breath the air, drink the water, eat the food—not made by them, stating there is no God. There should be no rules to restrict us from what we wish to do. If I want to take something others call sacred and desecrate it so be it. They publish the satanic “Law of Allowance,” which is neither a law nor a rule, but deception at its lowest level. (Change ones thoughts and reality changes and poof God is no more, no responsibility, easier to blame others, no barriers, and if it feels good then do it—some might equate this with insanity. Others are doing it so it must be okay. Surly if there is a God somewhere He won’t wipe us all out—will HE?)

There is a creator! I believe in God. I know that he lives. He really exists. He is our Father. We are His Children. We are all brothers and sisters. He loves us and wants us to return to his presence.

I also know that Satan, the devil, wants us to negate all of the this and say it is not so; that is so ironic, because by him doing so means that he has to deny his own existence…like much of the world is doing today.

To deny it one has to be in the opposite camp as that is by its very nature the universal law—the opposition. I am sure the devil feels discriminated against, no one seems to like him. His goal and mission is to make us all miserable like unto him and we see the same today so clearly, it never ends.

Why, oh why do we attempt to be “Politically correct all the time,” which really means an attempt to sit on the fence and try and offend no one just for political gain. Why do we hesitate to offend the devil and end up offending the most precious of all, the creator? Should we not be saying, “To hell with the devil and his forces,” let us not offend the God of the Universe, this year or any year, it makes no difference 5 or even 10 years further on, there are rules that when broken will require an accounting, regardless of what the state or a country may say, to justify evil. History is filled with those out comes, if we would only take the time to observer.

wow -- the yes on 8 people really ARE crazy, sheesh. Pick a reason and stick with it. AWKWARD!

why is this an issue for the gay community. Do you have to call it marriage? You have the rights of everyone else with your civil unions. get over it. marriage is between a man and a woman, and it's over. You're not missing out on any rights, it's just a word. can you leave us straight people alone already? comparing the discrimination to what the Japanese went through in wwII is quite shameful. I's say you should all be beaten for that one, but you'd probably enjoy it too much!

Who gives a good god damn. This is just another example of the ignorance in California and the other 49 states. Where the elected officials are in most cases selfserving SOD's and corrupt. Not to mention the intrusion in our homes with their, "We know better than you attitude, Government will take care of you and tell you what to do, so listen to us. As for Tristen, The ignorance of old people and their dying off is a big thing. Not only does it show just how piss poor his parents were at raising him and teaching that respect is a 2 way street, and pale in comparison to the lack of education in school that He must of had. I should say the social and political indictrination by the piss poor educators working in the California schools must have given him. I could careless what gay people, strait people, singles, couples and anyone else does as long at they are respectful and show a bit of class and dignity by at least representing themselves as margially educted and civil. All I ask of the Gay community is no recruting, no gay education in school and Don't spread the dreaded AIDS virus to Hetrosexuals through Bi or devient sexual unprotected crazyness. I let my dick think for me for 40 years and It was unpleaseant. So in closing do what you will, be careful, get out of our homes via the nightly news, be happy, don't piss other people off that don't agree by shoving your gayness down our throats, Be just like the rest of the nation go about your business and keep your personal live inside the house And to yourselves,We don't care! Your aggressive beligerant actions and attitudes are really what piss most people off! I have gay friends in the Bay area and our friendship is not based on their sexuality. It's based on common interest and just normal thing friends do. hang out, attend social get togethers, mutual respect, having fun. The issue of sexuality does not even come up because it is not part of just being friends. So if your offended by my opinion Kiss off, but remember I have a right just as you do to disagree. And opinions are like assholes everyone has one! Just stay out of my living room with yours or anyone elses BS. Get married or don't. But don't make a big deal out of it, and just think you could be just like me and get 4 divorces, you know like the hetro sexual, christian, do good world does. But keep it to your selves. Frank Hetro

The issue is as simple as separation of church and state. The government has no right to tell its people who we can or cannot marry. This country was founded by people who were fleeing religious persecution. Enforcing a ban on gay marriage and using reasons such as what is stated in the Bible is a blatant disregard for the constitution. No matter where you stand on 8, think about the power we are giving to our government when we let them make decisions about our and others' personal lives. We need to draw the line here, if not because of gay discrimination (which is reason enough), because of the power we are giving the government over our futures.

@Frank Hetro

"As for Tristen, The ignorance of old people and their dying off is a big thing. Not only does it show just how piss poor his parents were at raising him and teaching that respect is a 2 way street, and pale in comparison to the lack of education in school that He must of had."

** ROFL! First of all Mr.Edumacation, spell your name right, its Hetero.

"I could careless what gay people, strait people, singles, couples and anyone else does as long at they are respectful and show a bit of class and dignity by at least representing themselves as margially educted and civil."

** You are so educted and strait...the real question is what bit of class did you miss!

"I let my dick think for me for 40 years and It was unpleaseant. So in closing do what you will, be careful, get out of our homes via the nightly news, be happy, don't piss other people off that don't agree by shoving your gayness down our throats,"

** ROFL, shoving "gayness" down your throat! Freudian slip maybe? Ask your dick.

"The issue of sexuality does not even come up because it is not part of just being friends. So if your offended by my opinion Kiss off, but remember I have a right just as you do to disagree. And opinions are like assholes everyone has one! Just stay out of my living room with yours or anyone elses BS."

** The issue of sexuality never comes up? First you have someone "shoving gayness down your throat", now you want to "kiss off" then lead right into talking about assholes. You are a classic closet case - chew on that!

Welcome to the Christian Theocracy of California.

The People have spoken. The numbers are in. Let us now put away our differences and pull together towards the new and exciting future that we, the proud citizens of California, have opened the way towards.
With the passage of proposition 8 we see the true nature of our ideals and ambitions: the end of silly, permissive, secular policies enabling the activities of those who would spurn God’s gifts. Too long has the dispute over the place of God’s Law with our public policy been waged. The people have spoken. When asked the question: “do we want selected dictates from the Hebrew Scriptures to determine the rights and freedoms accorded to the citizens of California?” the answer is yes.
John McCain may have lost the election, but in his concession speech he made clear the responsibility of all Americans. In order to live in a true democracy, we must be willing to put aside the passions of the contest and throw our support behind the majority when the election is over. Now is the time for the defeated secularist factions, faithful and otherwise, to muster our efforts anew and see our new policy through to its rational conclusions. Let Californians reap what we have sown.
If it has been decided that marriage exists for the purpose of procreation, then let us act swiftly to pass legislation to annul all marriages that fail to produce offspring within two years.
If it has been decided that the mere mention of homosexual relationships in schools is detrimental to our youth, then let us mandate the teaching of heterosexuality in our schools, and fund massive treatment and counseling for those who cannot conform as children, fines and prison for those who choose not to as adults.
Let us ban any materials which can be perceived as validating un-Christian behavior— or at least require warning labels for books by gay authors, movies and television depicting or implying homosexuality, etc.
This is not a time for half-measures and compromises. The people of California have decided that the threat imposed by the legal recognition of homosexual relationships is so grave as to require the amendment of the constitution. This despite the apparent lack of any social detriment caused by the recent permissiveness. This is obviously not a question of social or economic wellbeing. This is about preserving and expanding the Christian identity of California.
On Election Day it was decided that religious doctrine can no longer be left to the churches. In order to ensure that all citizens of every color, creed, and orientation, live in accordance with God’s law, that doctrine must be made the ruling law of the land.
No matter where we each stood on November 3rd, let us now gather together and work towards the enshrinement of all exclusionary traditions. God bless all straight, fertile, white, Christian bigots, and let the constitution of the Great state of California keep everyone else in line.

Like most, I'm utterly disappointed with the failure of the NO ON PROP 8 movement in organizing on the ground early on counter the expected momentum from the religious right.

Everyone knows the YES movement means business. Yet, the organizing does not seem to be able to connect with populous suburbia. Don't have to look far -- Contra Costa, which is not like that far from the Bay area. Also, any meaningful/aggressive reaching to the colored community and progressive churches outside our comfortable progressive communities? Probably not as much as the right movement descending on our colored community here in San Francisco and spreading their demagoguery and fear-mongering robocalls and flyers.

A very important lesson must be reminded here -- you can't win a civil right movement without effective reaching out on the ground to communities outside our progressive circle from day one. Last minute banner flying and one-on-one education on the street are not enough.

Kirk -- you totally took the words right out of my mouth! I'm preparing a post on that very topic now ... I'll tip my hat to ya!

So, Gavin Newsom wants us to vote NO on Prop 8.
For the uninitiated, Newsom is the San Francisco playboy Mayor who was elected with Willie Brown's political machine and Gordon Getty's money.

He was so unpopular with SF progressives that he nearly lost the election to Green Party candidate, Matt Gonzales, even though he outspent Gonzales 10 to 1. Newsom was so unpopular with the GBLT community that he was booed at the Annual Gay Pride parade.

Being a shrewd Pol, Mr. Newsom, decided to woo SFs large and wealthy gay block by co-opting gay marriage. The GBLT community abandoned progressive instincts in favor their own special interests. Newsom used the issue to garner publicity while simultaneously establishing a political base.

No one has more at stake in seeing that Proposition 8 fails than Newsom. His political career depends on it's outcome. The grandstanding, so clearly encapsulated in the Yes on 8 "LIKE IT OR NOT" ads reveals of Mr. Newsom's true motives in supporting marriage rights.

In 2004, when Newsom started issuing same sex licenses in SF, there was a documentary crew recording every move. Coincidentally, the director of this documentary is his brother-in-law. Not surprisingly, the poster for this documentary features not a gay couple, but rather a large picture of Mr. Newsom and the American flag.

So, when Mr. Newsom pleads us to vote NO on Prop 8, be aware that he's really pleading for us to keep his political career alive.