Zero tolerance for BART cop killings

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I understand how frustrated some commuters were when protesters shut down the Civic Center BART station. And you can make the argument that the protest might have alienated fewer people if it had been outside the station, or whatever. But the fact is, a man is dead because a BART cop shot him -- and quite a few other people are dead because BART cops shot them, and in at least three of those cases, the shooting was unjustifiable. And the BART Board sat on its hands for almost 20 years and did nothing (until the Oscar Grant shooting was captured on video).

So I'm with the protesters on this one. It was important to make a statement, to disrupt business as usual, and to tell BART that, frankly, we're all sick of this shit.

And now BART says it's going to enforce a "zero tolerance" policy for protests. BART's Linton Johnson says:

"That delay goes to the protesters. That mess, those fringe groups own it."

I have a couple of questions: That "mess" of a police shooting -- who owns that? Why are people angry (for good reason) about the BART Police suddenly "fringe groups?"

And when do we get a "zero tolerance" policy for dubious police shootings?

Comments

Or a small crowd of rent-a mob protestors who show up at any and every excuse jump on yet another bandwagon?

Since when do you or them speak for ALL of us?

I suspect if, as a good journalist, you actually got out there and undertook a poll, or did some real investigative jurnalism, rather than just pontificating from your comfortable office chair, you'd learn that the vast majority of people are sick of dangerous, unpredictable and violent people on the streets, buses and trains, and are mostly indifferent if occasionally one of them commits "death by cop" by stabbing a law enforcement officer in the arm.

But of course, if I got paid to spend all day bitching about "the system", I'd probably promulgate a jaundiced view of the world as well. Sigh.

Posted by Walter on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 12:12 pm
+1

"And you can make the argument that the protest might have alienated fewer people if it had been outside the station, or whatever..."

It *might* have, lol? Ya' think? The protest was equivalent to a circle jerk, as it seemed to have no real purpose other than pleasuring the few freaks involved while creeping everyone else out.

And Tim, did you really need to write a column about how your "with the protestors on this one"? Duh, of course you were.

Posted by Sambo on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 12:58 pm

How can an officer make a decision within a minute to shoot someone? Until those in authority are held accountable there is no responsibility!

Walter you sound like an old man bitching about the youth trying to change the world.

Let's talk about the violent people dumped on the streets by our police state system to justify more patrols more arrests and more... shootings of people. Don't be the last to awaken, or noone will be there to protest your death.

Posted by Guest on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 1:02 pm
WOW

"How can an officer make a decision within a minute to shoot someone? "

It's likely a matter seconds.

Paragraph three, classic example of Hoffstaders paranoid.

Posted by matlock on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 1:44 pm

When a crazy ass motherfucker charges at a cop with a knife, you can bet your last dollar he's going to get shot down.

Posted by Von Funkenstein on Jul. 17, 2011 @ 11:46 pm

It surely does not take more than 60 seconds to determine that someone is armed and presenting a threat with those weapons. In fact waiting longer could prove to be waiting to get seriously injured or killed.

http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19097.0

Posted by Guest on Jul. 20, 2011 @ 10:41 am

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

If commuters are upset that they were put out by professional protesters, and since 99.99999% of citizens of the Bay were not protesting... who is "we?"

Progressives are the new est and Tim is the new Werner H. Erhard.

Posted by matlock on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 2:17 pm

Tim, you say:

You say:

“you can make the argument that the protest might have alienated fewer people if it had been outside the station, or whatever.”

You can make the argument that the protestors should view commuters as potential allies, to be won over, not as enemies, to be attacked.

Why is it so hard for you to make this argument?

You say:

“But the fact is, a man is dead because a BART cop shot him…”

And the fact is that there will be more such cases unless the protests against them are intelligent and convincing.

You say:

“It was important to make a statement…”

Wasn’t it important to make an INTELLIGENT statement? What’s the use of stupid, counterproductive statements?

You say:

“we're all sick of this shit.”

Is this a reference to the practice of making inept responses to social injustices?

You say:

“Why are people angry (for good reason) about the BART Police suddenly ‘fringe groups?’”

Because the protestors acted like a lunatic fringe. It’s not hard to figure out.

You say:

“And when do we get a ‘zero tolerance’ policy for dubious police shootings?”

When the protest against them is intelligent, focused, and inspiring.

Which has yet to happen.

Let’s be reasonable.

Posted by Arthur Evans on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 1:15 pm

Next time a knife wielding nut case is lunging at you - *after* having just stabbed you - please make sure to take a few minutes, sit down, breathe, call the local City College Socialist Workers Collection for advice, consider what Che would do, and then make your next move.

And then you'll be dead. And you won't have to worry about the police state system and corporate control ever again.

Posted by Sambo on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 1:17 pm

And that chaps Tim's hide.

It's really as simple as that.

Posted by Lucretia "Secretia" Snapples on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 1:36 pm

For some time now, Tim Redmond's editorials and articles have lacked originality, buoyancy, and depth.

Apparently he has a desk drawer full of old bumper stickers. He pulls one out from time to time and makes its slogan into an article.The result is bumper-sticker journalism.

His editorial on the BART police is an example. It's nothing but old slogans. It contains nothing in the way of either real news or practical solutions.

Tim Redmond's behavior is another example of the deterioration of The Guardian as a newspaper.

They're just going through the motions now. They have little to say that's of much interest either to the general public or to thoughtful minds.

They content themselves with preaching to an ever-shrinking choir of true believers, typified by people like Greg, "Guest," Jorge Orwell, the ex-Greens, and the Milk Clubbers.

We are watching an atrophied religion going through its last stages. The last to go will be the Ayatollah Brugmann.

Posted by Arthur Evans on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 3:20 pm

for hating such a paper, you sure as hell spend a lot of time here. is it some sort of SM type of thing you're doing to yourself........spending all of this time on something you can't stand, since no one forces you to come here. are you sure you're all there???????????????????????????? oh that's it, you're just not all here. though i knew that a looooooooooooooooooong time ago. have you been to the doctor??????? or did they already give up??????

Posted by Guest on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 4:53 pm

From the article:

"And when do we get a "zero tolerance" policy for dubious police shootings?"
I don't think that's going to happen, unfortunately.

"And now BART says it's going to enforce a "zero tolerance" policy for protests. BART's Linton Johnson says: "That delay goes to the protesters. That mess, those fringe groups own it."

I won't write what I really think about this Linton Johnson guy from BART. Of course he's trying to dismiss and minimize the protesters by his use of the word "fringe." From my experience, that's a right-wing tactic to dismiss people with whom one disagrees. So, since this guy says BART is going to enforce a "zero tolerance" policy for protests, does that mean that BART police will shoot and kill protesters next time? Many on here would cheer for that. I have no doubt. If the "Founding Father's" of this country were around today, many would cheer for their deaths also due to their protests. They too would be called "fringe."

This is just the beginning of all the so-called "unrest." Wait until food prices rise a bit more and then see what happens. Of course, if the police were taking away people's guns, those hating on the protesters would be the first ones protesting. It really depends upon who's the chosen target. 1984.

Posted by Jorge Orwell 1984 on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 4:42 pm

Super deep and heavy. 1996.

But seriously, I just don't think this issue is resonating with anybody. Here we have our knife wielding, police stabbing, clearly insane shooting victim - who I truly hope is now in a better place:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/files/imagecache/top_story_image/blog_images/c...

And here we have our all too common white, losty, San Francisco, five different protests in eight days, "activists:

http://cbssanfran.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/sf_bart_protest_071111.jpg...

Put them together and you get a picture that's a little annoying and mostly boring. You guys can write about this for the next month, it ain't going to grab anyone.

Posted by Longtime-Lurker on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 5:12 pm

Look at the number of public comments at the Chron on the story that BART will crack down on demonstrators in the future (link below).

The clear majority support the BART police.

If the goal of the demonstrators was to win public favor to their side, they still have their work cut out for them.

On the other hand, if their goal was to get psychological relief by acting out, they have succeeded.

Is it a smart move to get psychological relief at the cost of political defeat?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2011/07/12/BA...

Posted by Arthur Evans on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 5:26 pm

tell us something we don't already know or would guess. that's all that counts is what people write on the chronicle's site. that's how democracy is decided. but the constitution is around to protect the minority from the majority....remember?????????

NEWSFLASH.....someone here already talked about the chronicle in the other thread. jorge did. he wrote.........

"Unfortunately, most of these posts remind me of what one reads on SFHate (also known as SFGate). Most people there despise any and all protesters, no matter what the protest is about. If there's a protest, the hate flows on that site. The posts here remind me of the posts there. Some nasty and hateful things written here, just as on SFHate. It speaks volumes about the kind of person who would write such a post. None of them I would ever want to meet or know."

Posted by Guest on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 6:09 pm

Sam is a long-time troll (that's his third name) who changes his name every so often and is well known for his long screeds against "SFHate."

Sam/Jorge will also be posting his political observations gained from his daily walks. "Today I was walking in the Castro and I saw a sign." That's vintage Sam/Jorge.

Posted by Lucretia "Secretia" Snapples on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 6:33 pm

you said all that last year sometime. does it really matter who he is. his point is still valid, which of course you never address.

how many names have you had? let's see there was lucreatia snapples, now it's lucreatia "secretia" snapples, before that it was lucreatia trollop and before that it was lucreatia mott.

recently tim redmond wrote a post to you and said "lucreatia or whatever your name is....."

his point was well taken. so before you go on about somebody else using different names, check yourself out.

now back to the subject..............you can't stand the subject, lucreatia or whatever your name is.

Posted by Guest on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 6:53 pm

LUCRETIA.

This one ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Posted by Lucretia "Secretia" Snapples on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 8:39 pm

yeah, got it. had it. but why do you feel the need to keep changing your name, troll? you still haven't answered that. all that brain power you pretend to have, you don't seem to use it for anything worthwhile. why don't you try to become part of the discussion, rather than a troll. then you could be a genius too.

Posted by Guest on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 9:01 pm

And incorporate them into the body politic that is The Snaps.

Something you seem utterly incapable of comprehending.

Posted by Lucretia "Secretia" Snapples on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 9:28 pm

FYI... Lucretia Mott is someone else. In fact that particular Lucretia usually makes sense. The other Lucretias... not so much.

Posted by Greg on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 9:31 pm

Are FAR beyond anything the didactic mind of Greg can process. Indeed - beyond the comprehension of most mere mortals.

Snapples is the forefront of a movement. A revolutionary sister.

Posted by Lucretia "Secretia" Snapples on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 10:48 pm

Please come down off the high throne/pedestal you've placed yourself on long enough to read this: Normally I don't respond to anything you write because you are a major waste of one's time. An exception to that here: I read what Greg wrote and followed down to your ridiculous response. It was ridiculous because what a joke! You must have multiple personalities and not know it. Your use of the term Snapples is a joke because I've never read anything remotely "revolutionary" from you EVER! EVER! Quite the contrary in fact. You're as pro-Establishment and status quo Elitist as they come. Nothing "revolutionary" there. YOU a revolutionary? In your dreams! Not a chance in reality! So you are abusing the word Snapples by using it.

Now, you can crawl back up on that high pedestal where you acquire all that stuffy hot air for your snarky bloviations.

Posted by Jorge Orwell 1984 on Jul. 14, 2011 @ 1:08 am

For one's general information and education:

Police brutality increases in US
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TalvTj-vmLw

"Former Reagan Administration advisor Paul Craig Roberts says people who are attracted to police forces are bullies and sociopaths."

Posted by Jorge Orwell 1984 on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 7:18 pm

Police forces are a necessity of life. Without them, the thugs, robbers, rapists, and murderers would quickly take over.

However, the police should be highly trained, professional, and accountable for their actions.

The fact that there have been several instances in recent years of unprofessional activity on the BART police indicates a need to raise their professional standards.

However, the recent actions by the BART protestors will not promote this professionalism. The protestors treated the commuting public as the enemy and called for the abolition of the BART police.

As a result, the commuting public now dismisses the protestors as kooks. The issue of higher professional standards on the part of the police has gotten lost. The major concern of the commuting public is to protect itself from further annoyance by the kooks.

We have a word to describe the protestors' effect:

counterproductive.

Posted by Arthur Evans on Jul. 13, 2011 @ 8:00 pm

A progressive mob trashed the Castro tonight (Tuesday), protesting the recent shooting of Paul Harding in the Bay View neighborhood.

Why did the progressives target the Castro?

Click here:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2011/07/san-francisco-police-make-...

Posted by Arthur Evans on Jul. 19, 2011 @ 9:26 pm