About the Mirkarimi poll

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It's no suprise that lawyers for suspended Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi are calling a recent poll biased. The poll, paid for by a group of local women, many of whom have been in the forefront of the efforts to remove Mirkarimi from office, found that 61 percent of people wanted the sheriff ousted. More significant, it broke the results down for the supervisorial districts where there are contested elections; the goal, of course, was to put pressure on the supes to support the mayor's removal efforts.

But nobody has published the actual questions in the poll -- although I got a call from Greg Kamin, a San Francisco resident who was among those contacted by the robo-poll, and he said it was unusual, to say the least.

"In a normal push poll, they ask you your opinion first, then give you information to see if it changes your view," he told me. "In this one, there was just a barrage of negative information first, before they asked a single question."

One question went more or less like this: Which factors would most convince you the sheriff should be removed -- the fact that he pled guilty to false imprisonment, the fact that the Ethics Commission ruled against him, the fact that he was involved in domestic violence, or the fact that he's on probation?

"There was no way to answer the question that didn't say you wanted him removed," Kamin said.

Given the way the poll was structured, Kamin told me, "it's surprising Mirkarimi got as much support as he did."

Worth considering.

Also worth considering: For all the talk about domestic violence and zero tolerance and the need to remove the sheriff, there's been very little discussion about the impacts on the people in the county jail -- who are overwhelmingly African American and Latino. It makes a difference who the sheriff is. Someone who really believes in rehabilitation and wants to treat inmates in a decent, humane way can change lives -- and radically improve public safety in a state with a 70 percent recidivism rate.

Again: Just something that ought to be part of the discussion.

 

Comments

That was a freakin' paraphrase if I ever heard/read it. My neighbor got one of those calls and they NEVER ASKED THAT!

Posted by MistOfTheCity on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 7:37 pm

There is no room for debate -- this poll was created and paid for by anti-Mirkarimi forces and was designed to hurt his case.

But wow, what a bang the anti-DV forces got for their $2,000. Genius stuff. I've seen the poll quoted in several major online and tv news sources with varying degrees of discussion as to the bias of it's creators.

The anti-Mirkarimi side knows that public opinion is on their side which is why they went the poll route in the first place.

They have a big advantage and they want to maximize it. Good for them. I know Progressives think it is unfair when the other side fights back, but too bad. It would never occur to the pro-Mirkarimi side to dare conduct a poll.

Also, that question example that Tim uses (with Greg's help) is totally non convincing. There was another question that asked clearly: Should Mirkarimi Be Removed? Yes, No, Not Sure. It was as clean as could be. 61% percent said yes. Of course Tim ignores this because it doesn't fit with his agenda.

As usual, if you do spend time reading a Tim Redmond article you should also go to Google news see what honest journalists say about the subject matter. Here is a KGO TV report for example:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=878...

Posted by Troll on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 10:20 am

If the poll gave out prejudicial info before the recipient of the poll was asked whether they think RM should be removed, then that's a flawed poll. Is this news to you? If your brain can figure out why it's flawed, then why do you post here to support it? Do you like polls that lead the recipients one way and think those are trustworthy polls? If so, were you in a bad accident that your brain was badly damaged so that you no longer have the ability to think rationally?

Posted by Guest on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 10:40 am

I didn't say that it was a perfectly clean poll, Einstein. Was reading my first sentence too taxing for you? If it was a perfectly impartial poll and they came out with a 2-1 margin then this whole sorry story would be over and we could all go home. And the poll didn't seem to be nearly as flawed as Tim would like us to believe.

Hey look....it's only $2,000. Why don't the pro Mirkarimi people do their own poll? Why did it seem like a good idea to the anti-Mirkarimi side but the pro-Mirkarimis didn't think of it?

Posted by Troll on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 10:56 am

Garbage in (biased remarks prior to questions) = garbage out (distorted poll results)

"And the poll didn't seem to be nearly as flawed ..." - wrong, you must have brain damage if you didn't think such a poll was seriously flawed. It's no mistake it was biased once one realizes some (if not all) of those behind it were Ross's enemies.

That was pure propaganda that only naive or biased ppl would give legitimacy to. So what's your excuse: bias or naivety?

Posted by Guest on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 1:54 pm

These women have never known and will never know a moment of pure sexual bliss in their lives - you can see it in their faces. I watched them at the hearing last week. Big Butt Upton is surely behind this. She can't go a minute without trying to continue the efforts to tear the Mirkarimi-Lopez family apart through her scheming. It's clear she's jealous of the relationship between the incredibly attractive and overwhelmingly masculine Ross Mirkarimi and the poised and sophisticated Eliana.

Thank you Tim for pointing out the obvious - the women behind this poll are shrill harpies who are using it as a means of putting pressure on certain supervisors. They won't stop until they destroy this family, this amazing, beautiful family. We cannot let them succeed - we WILL NOT let them succeed!

Posted by JCCourt on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 10:41 am

I can't tell, I always want to be in on the joke when it includes irony, but I just can't tell.

Posted by matlock on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:04 am

is pretty astounding. You must be one beautiful woman if you can go around harshing other people's looks, not to mention their sexuality. Very progressive of you!

oh wait, I just saw YOUR picture, you'd have to pay me

Posted by Guest on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:28 am

asexual. While that can apply to DV "activists" it can also apply equally to DV perp apologists, and we have seen a few examples here from Debra Walker to ChrisCraft to JCCourt, and of course their various nom de plumes here.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:50 am

and Ross is incredibly attractive with an overwhelming sexual magnetism which I know many professional DV women like Big Butt Upton clearly find disconcerting. There is very strong sexual energy between Ross and Eliana and you can see how disturbing these harpies from the DV community find that to be - none of them have ever known a moment of pure sexual bliss in their entire lives and they're insanely jealous of the handsome Ross and the elegant Eliana.

Posted by JCCourt on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 12:04 pm

JCCourt, I'm on your side...like you, I'd like to see Mirkarimi reinstated as sheriff. But can you please stop talking about the "overwhelmingly masculine Ross" and "the beautiful Eliana" or "poised and sophisticated" Eliana. And please shut up about their sexual life, of which you know nothing and have no right to opine on. It's way over the top. You are making a laughing stock of progressives and something which a serious matter. Just saying.

Posted by fellow prog on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

She really illustrates just how crazed most Mirkarimi backers are. You couldn't make this shit up if you tried - it's like a crazed Harlequin romance novel gone wrong.

Posted by Troll II on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 12:51 pm

Maybe you haven't been here long enough, but in case you haven't noticed, this site is full of internet trolls who come here just to shut down debate, to mock, to vandalize the site. One of their tactics is to steal other people's aliases and write comments in their names that make the original poster look bad. This isn't the original poster who wrote under the alias "JCCourt." It's one of the trolls... probably Troll II, although I think some of the different trolls are also the same person.

Tim... honestly, I think it's time to do something about that practice. It's making your site unreadable.

Posted by Greg on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 1:56 pm

Has JCCourt always been me or am I JCCourt just now? I can't follow your crazed conspiracy theories but a cursory reading of JCCourt (who is Christine Craft who also posts under Coppersmom and Dootise) shows similarities in sentence structure and phraseology stretching back for months here, always on issues involving Ross Mirkarimi.

I agree Tim - trolls like Christine Craft who post under numerous monikers should be dealt with severely. Inspector Greg should be consulted as he knows what's up.

Posted by Troll II on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 2:10 pm

There is an utterly contemptible excuse for a human being among us. That's what you want to hear, right Troll II? I knew that.

There are some obvious clues to when it's Troll II is imping others, but of course it's best to leave them unspoken.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 3:01 pm

Still smarting over your own recent imping? It happens to the best of us. I've been imped, you've been imped, Greg's been imped - we've all been imped.

Until something like Disqus or Facebook logins are required here this is just the price we'll have to pay. Freedom of speech does have its casualties.

Posted by Troll II on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 3:12 pm

What a silly accusation!

Posted by Greg on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 3:18 pm

I should have realized that a troll was imping Court. On second read, it's pretty obvious (the writing is just too silly).

Thanks for the heads up, Greg. I totally agree that SFBG should act to stop this practice. It's really malicious and discourages people from posting.

Posted by fellow prog on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 4:26 pm

the ones that are the most extreme and, in a very real sense, kinda deserve it, I suppose.

Wear it as a band of, well, er, something.

Posted by Greg on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 7:59 am

that polls make Greg's pussy hurt.

Posted by Greg's Pussy Hurts on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 10:16 am

because I don't think anyone has been imped more than you. Or is that just another troll imping you yet again? It's hard to tell who's who on this site anymore (sigh)

Posted by Guest on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 4:13 pm

You are 100% correct, I just noticed that someone has been using my name. This publication should rectify this problem. Thanks.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 4:01 pm

You are 100% correct, I just noticed that someone has been using my name. This publication should rectify this problem. Thanks.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 4:01 pm

Yes, I concur. They are a very attractive couple.

But stop the madness! Stop the madness!

This is merely a case of wrongdoing.

Posted by Corvus Conriix on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 7:01 am

If Eliana was just an ugly pigboat like, say, the average, frumpy DV advocate, then the poll numbers would probably be 80/20 against Ross.

Both Ross and Eliana are super cute, have options, and will likely be more "demanding" of each other. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Posted by JCCourt on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 8:02 am

So, now anyone who is opposed to DV or assists domestic violence victims is a sexually frustrated old maid or a "man-hater?" Wow, I thought that sort of attitude had died in the 1950's, or at least was only alive and well in redneck land.

If you want to support Mr. Mirkarimi that is your prerogative, but you don't need to come across like some backwoods wignut to do it.

Instead of being a jerk and generally behaving like an ugly person, you can show your support in a constructive and civilized manner. Moreover, behaving like a decent human being instead of an idiot may even persuade some people to agree with you on this issue.

Posted by Chris on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 1:28 am

usually. And Mirk is an alpha specimin who naturally feels some need to give "direction" to a hispanic woman who is "pretty" but somewhat emotionally compromized.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 4:13 am

and their contrary and inhumane manner of thinking. That's why there is so much garbage being posted by those impostering others, and otherwise acting anti-socially.

When such miscreants spread their filth, it is because they are afraid of the ideas being discussed. They know that their support for such causes as Mayor Lee's attack on Ross MIrkarimi at its root does not have merit. They seek to destroy this open conduit for discussion between those who share that belief.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 8:06 am

Have you ever noticed that this guy ^^^ sometimes posts stuff out of nowhere that seems designed to solicit a butt-kicking? He must really like it. Fascinating.

Disturbing, but fascinating.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 8:23 am

In other words, you've got a problem with what I wrote, but you don't personally have the wit to refute it or otherwise respond intelligently, so you are posting a "help wanted" ad.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 9:11 am

"We think this is great information to have," said Beverly Upton, executive director of the Domestic Violence Consortium, a coalition of 17 different advocate groups. "Certainly every supervisor wants to know what their district thinks."

Here seem to be some of the associates of the group.

http://www.sfdvc.org/

This is all very interesting. Usually all it takes for a progressive to "hop to it" is a bad rap from some professional like minded organisation, often a thumbs down from one will have the average progressive up in indignant arms. Any one of these groups being opposed to a non progressive would have their position noted here.

Is there a word for this type of opportunism?

Posted by matlock on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 10:57 am

is DA Gascon's wife.

My takeaway: Just as with the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, every good organization tends to get coopted under a corrupting influence of a powerful and cutthroat political machine.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:23 am

Anyone of those groups complaining about something would be reason for outrage.

That this all involves Mirkarimi...

Posted by matlock on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:39 am

Obviously, I remain unable to understand your meaning. Perhaps once you put it into ever-so-much-more simplistic terms I'll have a good forehead slapping.

SImple subject-verb-object construction now matlock: what the fuck do you mean to be saying? (I don't really care that much, I suppose, so simply ignoring this would be fine too.)

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 12:41 pm

confused Greg

Posted by matlock on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:17 am

...and you know what, they ain't that bad. In the first question they probably should have mentioned only what he pleaded guilty to and not what he was charged with. But other than that it is suprisingly objective.

Note how the question that Tim and Greg made a big deal out of, Q5, asking why the people wanted Mirkarimi out, was asked AFTER the basic question of 'Should he be removed'. And it was a phone poll which meant that people gave their basic response on removal before they even heard the question that Tim offers as indication of bias.

But look, it all worked against Progressives. The forecast is for excessive whining.

Posted by Troll on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:27 am

Look, I'm going from memory here. I didn't have a recording device. But I'm glad that the questions and the breakdown are out. You can quibble about finer details, but my main points were essentially accurate:
1. They primed you with a barrage of negative information against Ross FIRST. That't the first thing they did before asking ANYTHING.
2. They provided NO INFORMATION from the other side.
3. One of the questions was asked in such a way as to give the respondent no options but to suggest a reason for removal.

Those factors together make this poll worthless except as pure propaganda.

Posted by Greg on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 2:12 pm

A progressive operation loaded it's survey questions with biased information to swing a poll their way?

Interesting.

Posted by matlock on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 6:07 pm

I guess they aren't really so proud of that kind of push poll.

With regard to the questions, it seems that characterizing Ross Mirkarimi's misdemeanor false imprisonment charge as a "domestic violence charge" is just a plain old lie. Wasn't the whole point of the sheriff pleading to such a charge to avoid the possibility of being convicted of a DV charge which would then preclude him from carrying a firearm?

Please do tell.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:32 am

Push Poll at its best, it was designed to create an anti Mirikarimi response, with the results being published and making the Chron readers believe most of SF residents want Mirkarimi gone.
Again Push Poll at its best.

Posted by SF resident on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:19 am

Never, not once. The Guardian and freaks like Lilli can spend their time discounting every single poll which has come out since showing people want Ross out as being biased, being a push poll etc... But what they can't do is point to a poll showing the opposite - that the majority of city residents support Ross and view this episode as politically motivated. Because that data doesn't exist in any form.

The Guardian should use some of the resources gained since it sold its building to developers and run its own poll showing majority, or even strong minority, backing for its view that this is all a vast conspiracy and represents a constitutional crisis of the highest order. They could really influence the debate if they were to show that someone other than themselves and Lilli support this POV.

Posted by Troll II on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:19 am

If, as you say, it's clear the public is against Ross, why did these poll takers - some with ties to political enemies of Ross - feel they had to be so biased in the questioning of the public???

Why did they have to preface the questioning with prejudicial remarks???

Of course they could have conducted a legit poll and just asked the questions. BUT THEY DIDN'T. THEY WERE AFRAID. They were afraid a fair poll would have not given them THE RESULTS THEY WANTED so they took measures to make sure they got the results they wanted.

This poll has as much legitimacy as the Romney campaign conducting a poll about the public's attitude about President Obama.

As for your statement about there never been a poll showing support for RM, a couple of things to remember. Polls are not the way the govt is supposed to be run since the public has not seen the evidence or heard from the witnesses (except a tiny minority) so poll results are nothing more than entertainment at best, and propaganda at worst as this poll is.

The other thing is that if this poll is typical of the way these polls are being conducted, then all of them are meaningless. Since y'r so gungho to about how great this poll is, it shows you believe in using BS to fool those who read your posts. If YOU WERE LEGIT, you would attack such a biased poll but since you don't, it shows nothing you say should be believed. You, like these poll takers, need BS and bias and distortions to make yr argument.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 1:41 pm

@Troll II, take some time out to understand Push Poll, how its created and the desired predicted results. As any poll can be manipulated. Ask yourself who paid for it? Then ask yourself what results did the want?

Posted by DavidinSF on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:44 am

The poll questions are here. (Hit download PDF). Questions are kind of loaded.

http://www.ktvu.com/documents/2012/aug/22/public-policy-survey-whether-r...

Posted by The Commish on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:45 am

They (those paying for the poll) were afraid of a fair poll and thus afraid the public was either evenly divided or pro-Ross. It makes Ross's enemies look even more pathetic than they already did. And makes the Chron look bad too for trying to give this poll any legitimacy.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

I know you're no Mirkarimi supporter, but you're also no troll. "Kind of loaded" is the understatement of the year, but coming from you, I'll take it.

Thanks for giving us the pdf with crosstabs. I'm glad to see it out there, because it vindicates everything I said about the poll.

On a separate note, Christina Olague and Eric Mar should look at those crosstabs and take note of the margins in D5 and D1. Even under the conditions of this "poll," if it can be called that, it seems like the residents there aren't quite going along with the program.

Posted by Greg on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 2:18 pm

How do you make that otherwise? It's 51%!

Posted by Guest on Aug. 24, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

any questions concerning whether Ross should be asked to leave Pussy Riot, given his misogynistic tendencies and propensity for violence against women. We should ask Kathleen Hanna, if she's even lucid this late in the day.

Posted by Bladdergasm on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 11:49 am

Funny being the subject of an ad hominem attack coming from the likes of you. How about that SFGate poll which shows two-thirds support for the (temporarily) ousted sheriff?

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 23, 2012 @ 12:10 pm